tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post579128012530828772..comments2024-02-24T06:25:59.743-08:00Comments on The Spine Blogger: Sales Credentialing, Just Another Brick in the Wall.Musculoskeletal Manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14873819014357051373noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-62115659886739055332010-09-21T12:16:00.766-07:002010-09-21T12:16:00.766-07:00it seems that vendormate can't determine how e...it seems that vendormate can't determine how exactly to do this process. Criteria changes with each CS rep you speak....and the CS call number is endless holds. You can leave a call back number but they won't call back. It has taken hours of staff and supervisor time to comply and later we are told it was unnecessary they really didn't need it after all. And, get this....the company doesn't even have a way to do their own digital photos. Hmmmm...security issue? We emailed the reguired digital photo.Vendormate is a good idea but poorly executed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-67683035872449326292010-04-08T13:12:26.015-07:002010-04-08T13:12:26.015-07:00I need more cowbells... I mean 'spineblogger&#...I need more cowbells... I mean 'spineblogger'.<br /><br />Where are ya man- it's been 8 days!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-16811158610880982222010-04-05T14:07:31.930-07:002010-04-05T14:07:31.930-07:00Per your request:
www.perceptumgroup.comPer your request:<br /><br />www.perceptumgroup.comJames Theinhttp://www.perceptumgroup.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-1259279413651723202010-04-05T13:29:36.818-07:002010-04-05T13:29:36.818-07:00I have seen it done well and poorly. Doing it well...I have seen it done well and poorly. Doing it well is expensive, doing it poorly is more expensive.<br /><br />My perspective is leading me to believe that most "start-ups" hire reps based on their past and do not have resources to train a new rep. <br /><br />Companies like that are trying to use the hiring process to determine whether or not a sales rep has what they need - they do not intend to add to that person's knowledge base.<br /><br />Successful companies launch new products with a combination of people working together with different levels of knowledge quite effectively; a "product specialist" accompanies the more well connected sales manager to "close" the sale with an important customer that the sales manager is able to get a meeting with. The effective sales manager then becomes a wheel that turns and puts the customers in contact with the most expert employees that the company has for a given question/issue. This should extend all the way into reimbursement support, in-service training for the OR staff as well as case-coverage by people who are qualified to train a surgeon on a cadaver.<br /><br />There is more than one way to do this.<br /><br />Things are getting counterproductive in some areas: I know of a case where the American company wanted access to additional data that had been collected at their study centers in Europe, data that FDA wanted them to provide as a next step in the US. They can't get it. <br /><br />In other cases Reps are now being excluded from the OR altogether in some ORs in the UK.<br /><br />This is not good for anyone, is it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-27724545092299257952010-04-05T11:07:02.451-07:002010-04-05T11:07:02.451-07:00I would have to agree 100% with James. James what ...I would have to agree 100% with James. James what is your website and contact info. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-1563624878748239122010-04-05T10:39:12.816-07:002010-04-05T10:39:12.816-07:00Right up front I want to disclose that I head up a...Right up front I want to disclose that I head up a sales training firm that specializes in working with med device, specialty pharma and biotech companies.<br /><br />Working in the life science industries for the last 23 years, I have seen a wide variance in training. In general, pharma places a higher premium on education and on-going development than medical device. During my years in medical-device, primarily in spine, I have observed that the many device companies show little interest in training their sales force to a high degree of competency.<br /><br />I’ve witnessed companies, including start-ups with emerging technologies, reap 10X ROI from their investment in training (Kyphon, Intuitive Surgical and NuVasive). Unfortunately, I’ve also observed that as companies increase their dependence on a distributor-based sales force, there is a corresponding decrease in training of salespeople on even the basics. I can only shake my head as I watch well-financed companies launch new products into half-billion dollar plus markets and believe they can adequately train a distributor sales representative in 4 or 8 hours what it used to take OEMs 1 to 2 weeks to accomplish. One company wound up re-launching, and in the process re-training their sales force, 12 months after initial launch because they weren’t seeing adequate pull-through out in the field. I can only imagine the opportunity cost. <br /><br />We have all seen the varied results delivered by the practice of on the job training in the field as well as in the OR. The effect of this practice has led to a steady decline in the professionalism of device sales people and the respect with which our industry is held.James Theinhttp://www.perceptumgroup.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-52426296940954005092010-04-02T15:48:11.195-07:002010-04-02T15:48:11.195-07:00Reps are just there now to protect their interests...Reps are just there now to protect their interests and because the surgeon feels they should be if he is putting money into their pocket. That is the plain and simple truth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-28905714354464163492010-04-02T09:20:23.665-07:002010-04-02T09:20:23.665-07:00As an experienced rep myself, we used to have hosp...As an experienced rep myself, we used to have hospitals require us to take these same tests, for free. So, how much is the hospital getting now?? I will guarantee you the hospitals are making money off of this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-60179202793410618522010-04-02T08:48:30.322-07:002010-04-02T08:48:30.322-07:002:20, Thank you for your honesty.2:20, Thank you for your honesty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-23249627341670063322010-04-02T02:20:25.047-07:002010-04-02T02:20:25.047-07:00As an industry executive that has worked for legac...As an industry executive that has worked for legacy and early growth stage companies I find a difference between how each business model is structured. Historically, legacy companies have placed a premium on sales education and training, regardless, if the company had an independent or direct distribution model. Many of these fly by night operations rarely implement a formal training program, and if so, it is usually done half-assed. The reason, some of the people running these companies never had any real sales experience within the industry. Independent Distributors would request a letter signed by yours truly stating that they were trained by the company on the product. I must admit, as embarrassed as I am, that I would sign off on a letter stating that they were formally trained. Why? Because the people running these companies are so desperate for revenue, they don't see the value in implementing these programs. It comes down to time and cost. These companies nickel and dime the programs that lend credibility to their organizations.<br /><br />Then just look at the people selling your products. The day of the sales professional is extinct, we live in a world of brokers. Everyone is looking for the deal. So maybe the hospitals do have a point in requesting credentialing, the only problem that I have is that the onus of paying for it should be absorbed by the company and not by the rep.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-38203067456664398062010-04-01T20:25:36.182-07:002010-04-01T20:25:36.182-07:00As a seasoned medical device sales person/manager ...As a seasoned medical device sales person/manager (20+ years) both corporate and distributor owner, I made damn sure our reps knew how to conduct themselves in the OR. I've made it a policy that every new sales associate understands specific OR protocol and their instrumentation prior to flying solo. The OR is NOT a training ground for reps.<br />That said, I do have a problem with these Vendormate, RepTrax companies posing as benefits to the sales associate. Their inoculation demands are far reaching. Granted with the recent proliferation of TB in the US, reps and ALL of the OR staff should be screened. However, I would challenge every hospital to question their staff as to their compliance with all the inoculation demands placed on the rep. Then add the hypocrisy of charging us a hospital access fee. What percentage of the fees are paid to the hospital?<br />TSB states "why would anyone want a surgeon operating on them if they did not know how to use the tools of their trade?" I've worked with some of the best most talented spine surgeons in the country. They want the rep in the room to assist the scrub tech in order to expedite the case. I'm experienced but not qualified to assist the spine surgeon. <br />The point is that the sales associate is necessary to the expediency of the case. We do not want to be part of the hospital's revenue stream.meddeviceexechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13290796005654310815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-65486219061177916882010-04-01T15:26:31.131-07:002010-04-01T15:26:31.131-07:00It exists because it's free for the hospital a...It exists because it's free for the hospital and it checks some boxes for JCAHO. Pain in the rear, but only because there are so many different systems for different hospitals. I already have all the documents (supplied by my company, after proper training, or given to me by my doctor), just have to upload them. And of course pay the $$$Calimotahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17238282148259310243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-58374316857748844592010-04-01T13:02:34.877-07:002010-04-01T13:02:34.877-07:00Disclosure: I'm an MD and not a rep. Last year...Disclosure: I'm an MD and not a rep. Last year I was asked to go though the credentialing process to see what it is like. Conclusion: a farce. Anybody with some hands-on experience in and around the OR can answer most of the questions, and those you cannot are the ones dealing with some arcane rules and regulations. The most revealing part was that if you get a question wrong, you just go back to the start, do it again and now choose 'b' instead of 'a', and 'c' the next time, if 'b' wasn't the right answer either. So in essence anyone can pass the test as long as you have the patience to go back and forth as often as you have a wrong answer. All it does is create a false sense of security for the hospital administrators who now can hide behind the 'but he was credentialed!' argument, and a lot of money for the smart alecks who started the credentialing companies. It is part of the ever more pervasive trend that nobody wants to take responsibility for anything.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00670352669210786388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-70507445924275902652010-04-01T10:59:40.630-07:002010-04-01T10:59:40.630-07:00I don't understand how some are $85 a year for...I don't understand how some are $85 a year for admission to 10 hospitals and other are $250 for one? What exactly am I getting for my $250? Have you actually ever tried to get these people on the phone? It is impossible. Does anyone know if the hospital is profiting of of these systems?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-58051586901991107022010-04-01T06:52:32.411-07:002010-04-01T06:52:32.411-07:00How ridiculous have we become? Years ago sales pe...How ridiculous have we become? Years ago sales people were viewed as a true asset in the OR. Now we are perceived as the enemy. In addition, if the surgeon find us as value added, why does anyone want to tax us for providing a service. I understand that we are charging for the product, but the hospital is also marking up the charge to the carrier. How ridiculous has it become that some surgeons are actually charging reps for their time to demo a product. Half of the time when you do a luncheon, it's for the staff. The surgeon could care less, especially if its another me too product.<br />Just leave it to a bunch of greedy bastards. Somewhere along the way the lines were drawn, today, rather than feeling like part of the team, many of us feel like intruders. Something has to change and please no pontification on HIPAA and OR Protocol because most of us are respectful of the patient and their privacy.Musculoskeletal Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14873819014357051373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-90469250014367428822010-04-01T06:43:06.834-07:002010-04-01T06:43:06.834-07:00I do not know if I am more pi$$ed off about having...I do not know if I am more pi$$ed off about having to pay the fees or not for not coming up with the idea first!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-3801139097205970242010-04-01T06:03:49.136-07:002010-04-01T06:03:49.136-07:00Most of the griping that I have seen on the creden...Most of the griping that I have seen on the credentialing issue stems from the new credentialing companies that hospitals are using. I have three different credentialing companies in my territory with combined charges of over 1500.00 per year. Some of the hospitals I only visit a few times a year but still have to pay 250.00 just to gain entry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-15113873799277819512010-03-31T20:01:24.049-07:002010-03-31T20:01:24.049-07:00It's interesting that the majority of device r...It's interesting that the majority of device reps constantly mock pharma reps for being glorified UPS delivery people and not "real salespeople", but the one thing that big pharma does is train and train and train. The fact that a good portion of device companies do not train on simple OR protocol and other hospital aspects is a joke. The simple fact is that device companies and the distributors who carry their lines realize that a rep out of the field at a training is not making $$$ and not selling or covering a case. Thus, training is at a bare minimum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-126852961571725269.post-53894117786586251852010-03-31T19:13:11.290-07:002010-03-31T19:13:11.290-07:00I don't think it's unreasonable for a hosp...I don't think it's unreasonable for a hospital to be asking reps that will have access to patient information, be in close approximately to the sterile field, and working within the OR to have to prove that they've gone through the necessary training to be competent in those situations. I've been a rep for almost ten years and have way too many times seen inexperienced reps contaminate the field, sift through patient data they don't need, and just flat out act stupid in the OR. <br /><br />Spine Cartel or not if you're sending a representative into the OR you had better trained them on these issues. This isn't a normal business...we're dealing with people's lives not selling copy machines to offices.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com