Round and around we go where it stops nobody knows........
Monday, March 8, 2010
Round and Round We Go.......
Recently, TSB received e-mails from various readers regarding the dealings by some of the smaller start-ups or early growth stage companies that specialize in interbody devices. The two companies that have been mentioned in particular have been Spine 360 and Verticor. Both of these websites seem to be camouflaged in the sense that 360 only exhibits a pedicle screw while Verticor has a family of interbody devices. We had heard that the FDA had put a halt to 360 for using non-medical grade PEEK. What have our readers heard about these two companies? It seems that they have been making some waves within the industry, while flying below the radar. TSB wants to know what you know?
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Heard they'll change name to Spine 180 if they lose their PEEK.
ReplyDeletedont know much about the non medical grade PEEK issue BUT- apparently the DOJ is looking at verticor and while they have not shut them down (yet) that cant be all good for their business.
ReplyDeleteThese two wannabes both got raided within 10 days of each other about 2 weeks ago. DOJ and FDA-Don't know the results or consequences yet but rumored to be very serious. It ought to be, these 2 have been in collusion and playing dirty pool for 5 years now. It was just a matter of time before this shoe dropped. TSB, they were busted for using non-medical grade peek years ago, the current legal issues may still involve that?
ReplyDeleteIf Weezy took the fall for possession because the prosecution argued it was dominion over the gun, it may be a matter of time before these fellas are made an example. Aren't there some former Blackstone employees at 360? Now there's a real ethical bunch.
ReplyDeleteSpine 369 is dirtier than a brown trout in a choked toilet. Looks like the DOJ recently used their Loo to drop a Deu.
ReplyDeleteAs always, I remain...
The 'Spine Boy'
Both of these companies are bad news for the spine business and so are the few surgeons they work with in Texas. Verticor or what they used to be called Interbody Innovations are ran by a couple of "monkeys" brothers who pay off surgeons to get some 510k ran thru. All of Verticor cages are fabricated thru a small machine shop and not even packaged sterile. Verticor has ZERO traction because anytime anyone hears about the 2 brothers running the company then they turn away Spine 360 somehow got partnered up with them and sale what appears to be the same cages. Ole Greg with Spine 360 to his credit has achieved what he has mentioned to several people in the spine business and that is "I am in the business to my docs money" Well to these companies it is a matter of time before you guys are exposed and the people you work with in the DFW and South Texas area are as well So to anyone looking to get mixed up with either of these 2 companies, be careful. You have been warned
ReplyDeleteSpine Boy wants you to name names! Who are the Principals at the Helm of these Turd factories?
ReplyDeleteVerticor only has one 510(k), and it's for a corpectomy system.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.accessdata.fda.gov/cdrh_docs/pdf9/K091426.pdf
The Principle of Spinal 360 is DJ Genese. Todd Stanford wons Verticor.
ReplyDeleteWord is they are being investigated for alleged kickbacks to surgeons.
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ReplyDeleteHorrific stories were linked with Scolio in EU few years ago, based on their use of non-medical grade PEEK.
ReplyDeleteScolio also sold outside EU, and ALL patients needed to be reoperated in emergency.
Riddle me this Musculoskeletal Man, Spine Boy wants to know how it is possible that our industry has been infiltrated by this garbage. Does anyone know any other medical device or other sub-segment with such unethical business models? How have Kickbacks, and 'surgeon consultants' become the most prevalent business model? How have little 5 and dime outfits Led by 'monkies' been able to produce marketable products? Is it the 510(k) process that's at flaw or the relatively unimportant and often unproven use of spinal devices with decent reimbursement that drives this nonsense? After all, there are larger markets for these dogs to rape like cardiovascular implants. For example there are no stent companies just opening up a 'candy shop' and dumping defective stents into unsuspecting patients based on our 'spine model.' There is certainly a whole lot more scratch to plunder in that world.
ReplyDeleteSpine Boy
the chic on Verticor's home page is hot...at least from the back.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.verticorspine.com/templates/rt_simplix_j15/images/style10/bg.jpg
A few months ago, I tried to distribute Spine 360 products. I invited the Northeast regional manager of Spine 360 into my territory to meet several of my docs after I had signed a contract with his company. A few days later, I found out that this manager was trying to set up a consulting deal with my customer and he cut me out of the deal entirely. When I mentioned our contract, he told me that even though I signed and sent in the contract, he never sent me back a signed copy and therefore we had no contract. I learned a valuable lesson.
ReplyDeleteSome rumors in South TX are that Spine 360 actually has employees in the offices of physicians and are directly paid by the company. DOJ raided the offices a few weeks ago, heard they confiscated 30+ computers. I would not want to be involved in that on either side!
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ReplyDeleteSpine Boy: IMHO, I think that the spine market is easier and less expensive to knock off products and get them to the market. With the IP surrounding stents and the balloon catheters used put them in it is very difficult to get into the market. Let's face it how much does it take to make a set of PEEK implants and instruments? Is there any IP? What is the return on the small investment? Spine is the easiest, least expensive and least technical of many of the medical specialties to get into, compete and profit. Even total joints are to costly for the average Joe and IP surrounds many of these products that makes it difficult to get into that space without a huge bank account. So I don't think there is much of a riddle to riddle you Spine Boy, but a great question.
ReplyDeleteRun, ran, whatever.... Most of you on here know very little of the real truth behind the rumors surrounding these two companies and your off the cuff remarks and half truths that you spout only shed light to the fact that you really know very little of what you are claiming to know.
ReplyDeleteAgain, check you facts..don't be an idiot unless you are.
Curiouser and curiouser...
ReplyDeleteTruth be told, PURE polyaryletherketones are almost interchangeable when considering their bio-active aspects (none - inert - all of them). It gets dicey when one considers that it is common (industrial) practice to include process aids (like stearates) in the mix to make resins like PEEK more agreeable to the extruder of rod or molder of stock shapes. Those aids are undisclosed and their health effects not well known. Dicey...
I a wondering about how a 510k was issued on an unproven PEEK? Unless it is a total fraud, using compromised documentation? Hmmm - that or pay a quarter-mil for the access letter? Let me think...
Makes the case for the PEEK/PEKK challengers to eliminate this motivation for fraud, methinks.
There's a ton of IP around PEEK implants. Not the material per se, but the shapes, tooth pattern, profiles, etc. What makes it easy to get in is that small companies can infringe and not really worry about getting sued by the patent owner when the infringing company is barely on the radar revenue-wise. It costs the patent owner more to sue and win (and then probably not get any payment since the small co will be wiped out and only had minimal assets to start with).
ReplyDeleteAll the 'interbody' devices cleared on VBR 510(k) clearances only need to meet basic mechanical strength requirements and are really pretty simple to manufacture. If they weren't would we see so many small companies out there? Doubt it. There's a reason there are only a handful of total joint companies in the entire market. And their pricing for a knee or hip is lower in many cases than what a small spine co can charge for a PEEK 'VBR'. To the earlier post's point, higher reimbursement and lower barrier to entry = today's muddled spine market and questionable business practices.
TSB, you’re losing all credibility, and your blog has turned into a gossip closet-
ReplyDeleteI’m an independent contractor and I’ve handled Verticor’s quality and regulatory affairs for several years and what you guys are saying is utter BS! Verticor has had a PEEK contract with Invibio since 2004 and has only used medical grade PEEK in manufacturing PEEK implants. Verticor has successfully been through FDA audits and inspections and has yet to receive so much as a warning letter. All implants are machined at reputable machine shops that are ALL ISO certified and make implants and instruments for several other spine companies. All Verticor implants are 510k approved and non off label.
Lastly, it is very irresponsible of you to participate in, and allow this kind of nonsense on your blog.
After following this blog for several months, I find it entertaining and just slightly less useful than the "news" on the Howard Stern show. At least this doesn't require a subsription. The slogan should be revised to reflect what it is really. "A blog full of crap from every crappy perspective in the entire industry, with some exception". That would be more accurate. It surely is NOT as advertised: The people's blog site where news, ideas, job opportunities and what's been heard on the street can be discussed in a professional manner.
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ReplyDeleteUsed car salesmen resort to puffery, so do illiterate spine salesman resort to slander for a competitive advantage? Spineless Boy and your cronies would never get away with this in the real world-get off the computer and get a job-the facts and law are on my side-
ReplyDeleteVerticor is actually a relatively decent cage company. I have sold their products and I can assure everyone that they use only peek optima. Todd's main mistake is in choosing some very poor business associates.
ReplyDeleteI've sold Verticor products for years and know for a fact that they only use medical grade peek. I've even been to one of their factories and seen cages being milled - and as far as illegal kickbacks, I'm sure every company out there has consultants and designers.
ReplyDelete"We had heard that the FDA had put a halt to 360 for using non-medical grade PEEK"
ReplyDeleteThe original comment is regarding Spine 360's use of non-medical grade PEEK, not Verticor. Are these two seperate companies or am I missing something?
Hello, my name is Jay Stanaford. Since my name is being thrown around and being associated with monkeys I thought I'd add to this nonsense.
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost I never was part of "running" Verticor or Interbody innovations and was never an officer of either of those companies, I was there strictly to drive sales. In addition I severed my association with Verticor in Dec of last year for various reasons.
I would encourage those of you who have taken the time to post the negative comments to get your facts straight before you say things. Your comments have been innacurate, irresponsible and harmful. I would encourage anyone with questions regarding my association with Verticor to contact me.
jaystanaford@suddenlink.net
The questionable business practices are mainly directed at Spine 360, however, Verticor chose to partner with them. "you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas"
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ReplyDeleteJay, it seems that although the facts may be innacurate, there is enough truth to cause concern. One Verticor suppoter on here states "- and as far as illegal kickbacks, I'm sure every company out there has consultants and designers." Thats a great argument. Maybe they can use that excuse when they are in court in front of the judge. This supports the poor business associates theory. Then you have this statement from a Verticor supporter: "so do illiterate spine salesman resort to slander for a competitive advantage?" I find it hard to believe that all these people are creating slanderous statements to gain a competitive advantage over a peon company that is a mere blip on the radar screen. The bottom line is, where there is smoke there is fire.
ReplyDeleteI'd encourage you to share your name.
ReplyDeleteJay Stanaford.
I have known Todd and Jay Stanaford for many years. I can state that unless something has changed recently I never saw any use of non-medical grade peek. It is very easy to spot the difference in the finished product between the two. I have heard that Verticor was trying to sell the business and that the FDA, FBI or DOJ raided their offices when the potiential buyer Amedica (sic) was on site. I will say this much, if the FDA, FBI, DOJ part is true it is just poetic justice! Jay is a good guy trying to make a living. He just happens to have a brother that will lie, cheat and steal to make a buck and would wash out in any other business. Luckily he found his way to spine, has lived like a rock star at the expense of surgeons who are uneducated "businessmen".
ReplyDeleteI heard his accountant and business manager have resigned too.
Jay you were the "front man" "driving sales" handing out contracts to surgeons is more like it-
ReplyDeleteSpine Boy is amazed how many angry old Jr. High school English teachers read your blog Musculoskeletal Man! Weird, have all these gals turned to selling PEEK spacers instead of condos in their retirement after the housing market crumped. Anway, I need to get back to finding a job , and a spine.
ReplyDeleteSpine Boy Rules!!!!!
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHow did TSB get dragged into the commentary made by readers? All TSB did was post a blog, the rest is up to the readers. I would speculate that whomever writes this blog has other things going on to monitor the many entertaining comments. Its up to the commentators to either make intelligent and rational observations or rant as some of you have. As a third party observer I must wonder what is going on at these companies based on some of your comments. Maybe this is what is fundamentally wrong with this industry, the cost of entry is inexpensive, there are too many deal makers and too many deals. Hopefully, someone will clean up this industry. A word to the wise, the same people that you step on on the way up, are the same people that step on you on the way down. Sometimes pay back is a bitch.
ReplyDeletegetting away from all the personal attacks here and back to the original issue that was raised, does anyone have any idea as to how much in sales $ Verticor and/or Spine 360 do a year? also what is the status of the DOJ and verticor-are they being shut down or does anyone really know?
ReplyDeleteDeal makes, kick backers, all thiefs everyone of you. I got out of spine because it's the dirtiest business all payoffs and money whores. starts with all the big players and trickles down. there's no uneducated surgeon business men, they drive it, everyone of them with their hands out robbing and looting any and evey one who'll pay! clean companies??? Name one! Your a pack of wolfs turning on one another. maybe someday they'll get it all cleaned up- but I doubt it! Medtronic settles a whistle blower case settles with the Feds and look already under new investigation. You want to hold all the little guys feet to the fire, and the big guys are the worst offenders. They see it as a tax on the industry. There's not one of you on here who could go out and sale a surgeon on your product, they don't bite on sales pitches alone
ReplyDeleteVerticor was sold- not sure what verticor or 360 do in sales
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ReplyDeleteThe Spine Blogger
ReplyDeleteThe people's blog site where news, ideas, job opportunities and what's been heard on the street can be discussed in a professional manner.
Well, due to the unprofessional nature I find myself once again encouraging the last few posters and posers to share your name with the community and reveal yourself. How easy it is for you to hide in obscurity of an anonymous post and continue to be a schmuck..
Anonymous said...
Hey Jay, I would encourage you to start lifting weights or you are going to be sharing a bunk where you're going.
Anonymous said...
Jay you were the "front man" "driving sales" handing out contracts to surgeons is more like it-
Again, these statements are so innacurate that it is comical. I'm starting to think that you are someone that was fired or asked to leave the organization or perhaps one that became upset once I made it known that I was leaving the company either way I would once again challenge you to step out from behind your hiding place and reveal yourself as the fool you are or maybe you would prefer to contact me directly and then I could clear this up with you very quickly..
only schmucks and fools are afraid to reveal themselves..
Jaystanaford@suddenlink.net
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteSince it's TSB's blog and certain readers want us to monitor other readers comments, we find it interesting that those complaining go on to rant the most. So in the spirit of the forum, if you can't post something argumentative, you leave us no other recourse but to delete your blog along with those that border on the sublime. Besides, those that bitch about the blog site the most, seem to be as culpable as those that they accuse. Remember, it's a blog and if you don't like what is written or commented about, you have an opportunity to be heard, or, you don't have to read it.
ReplyDeleteThese industry dog's have asociations that lay inthe same beds and scracth the same fleas....X-spine...is another front of a so-called spine company. This so-called inventor (infringes on other companies patents)is in a close reach to Spine360 and Verticor...
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous 6:12.
ReplyDeleteX-spine is absolutely nothing like you describe. We are a very real company with our own IP, engineering team, biomechanical lab, and our own manufacturing all in house. I would be happy to invite you to Ohio to see our operation.
We don't infringe. X-spine has 7 issued patents and over 40 pending. If you see other companies with similar-feature products, it is likely they have a license from us, not the other way around.
We sell product to over 100 distributors in the US and in 14 countries. These include industry leaders whom you should know and respect.
If you happen to be at the AAOS in New Orleans, please stop by Booth 4173 and learn more about our great company.
David Kirschman, President and CEO.
Jay bold move going on spin bloggs to clear your name....idiot
ReplyDeleteWe'll all know who spine blogger Is soon! Just spoke with legal councle representing a handfull of companies who have been slammed here by spine blogger and cronies. Your blogg will be served a subpeona and your identity will be revealed- slander is serious business pal and you better shut it down asap! You will be sued and you will pay! You're going down this time!!
ReplyDeleteI agree spine blogger has got to stop, or be stopped now! This is very damaging, these are all reputable people and good companies. This is harmful and should be self governed, but the blogger opens this blogg with some very inflamitoy accusations and invited damaging remarks from others. Not good I hope we do know his identity real soon- good luck
ReplyDeleteAnon 1334:
ReplyDeleteI sympathize - some of my groups have been victimized by rumor mongering and whispering campaigns (as well as outright fraud). What I MUST ask, however, points to the actions purportedly taken by DOJ & FDA. Tuit - was/were Verticor a/o Spine360 raided in the recent past? Operations suspended? SOME manner of punitive action taken by authorities? If not, then this is ALL just a bored knitting circle spinning yarn. IF so, however, then could you enlighten us as to what IS going on?
So far every subject or event that has been introduced by TSB could either be verified immediately through other sources or was confirmed a short while later. Where's the slander? "These are all reputable people and good companies" Not going into specifics about the ones under discussion here, we who have been working in spine for decades know that this is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.
ReplyDeleteI know definitively that Spine 360 and Verticor have license agreements w. Invibio to manufacture PEEK - Optima. Interesting how this comes up on this blog, which is dominated by Big Company spine reps losing market share to smaller companies due to their arrogance. Easiest thing to do to a small ankle-biter is to say "they're being investigated". The harder thing to do is to their convert their business.
ReplyDeleteTSB is the Perez Hilton of the Spine World. This is Spine World’s worst hated website and if you don’t like it, TAKE IT OFF YOUR FAVORITES! I doubt that a malicious statement has damaged someone(s) reputation that has not already been damaged. Keep it up TSB!!!!!
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ReplyDeletethis place is a joke
ReplyDeleteI know who spine blogger is.. he's that pin headed little creepy dude, who wears round glasses and a bow tie. He runs from booth to booth like a little chicken weasel on a hunt for rotten eggs and baby chickens asking all kinds of stupid questions- get a life you creep!
ReplyDeleteThe level of the arguments of those who disagree with TSB is definitely reaching new heights. Why don't all you people who for whatever reason are frustrated or feel threatened find something more useful to do? In the meantime I keep reading the TSB entries, which are unusually well-informed and much appreciated.
ReplyDeleteIf there is a legal fracas over comments made on this blog, it will be interesting to see what happens. Clearly a number of the comments made here by posters, not necessarily TSB, if unsubstantiated, seem to be slanderous.
ReplyDeleteThe constitution protects free speech, but it doesn't protect slander, regardless of whether the source is identified or anonymous. A few years ago Judith Miller of the NYT went to jail because she wouldn't reveal her anonymous source when a court ordered her to.
I'm no lawyer, but I'd be curious if the legal system would require TSB to either cough up identities, or at least require some form of identity tracking for comments going forward. It reminds me of Bill O'Reilly requiring "name and town if you wish to opine". That's probably his legal protection against publishing anonymous slander.
TSB, any insights?
Sign me: Just curious
Just Curious:
ReplyDeleteThank you for the commentary. TSB grapples with the challenge of having anonymous readers, indicative of our post a few weeks ago encouraging people to sign up as a follower with a moniker. We do not track our followers or readers. TSB is not big brother, preferring not to know anyone's true identity, or their ISP address. TSB attempts to monitor deleterious comments, witnessed by some of the recent deletions by the blog administrator. If anything, TSB is guilty of exposing or discussing the values, behavior, and hyper-materialism underpinning our industry, and the truth is, that some people don't like the truth. All of our information is in the public domain. Never once have we accused a company's product of failing in vivo. Have we questioned a products efficacy? Absolutely. Have we questioned companies decisions to hire some of the usual suspects that are old retreads? Absolutely. We are an eclectic, yet at times entertaining platform. As for financial information, we utilize the same public resources as other industry platforms use. It's up to our readers to monitor their comments, after all, they are adults. What we have learned is that people do not necessarily read what you post. All we do is provide them with a forum.
Maybe, some of the people that are attacked by our readers have short memories. Remember there are three sides to every story, yours, theirs, and somewhere in the middle, the truth.
All we do is report what was heard on the street.
Good one Spine Boy... I mean Chesapeake Branch Manager!
ReplyDeleteI would challenge the Spine Blogger to go visit 360 in person and see they are for real. Maybe then he would have the integrity to stop this nonsense.
ReplyDeleteEinstein:
ReplyDeleteTSB wrote a post asking who are these companies. The readers responded, so where is the connection?
Does anyone know the total number of companies that design, manufacture and try to sell cervical plates, cages and pedicle screws? 200? 300? And they, without exception, all are "addressing the needs of surgeons and patients, innovative, surgeon driven, industry leading, advancing the science, cost-effective, focused on team building and tissue preservation, focused on the individual patient and motion preservation, small and flexible, large and supportive, and comprehensively advancing, enhancing, focusing, targeting, mangling, snapping and bending the spine from birth until the grave." There is no other field in clinical medicine where hypocrisy and greed have become so all encompassing and all pervasive that the participants themselves have become convinced the situation is normal. It is not, and it will not last.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11:13 (and any and all others):
ReplyDeleteSo, then, if it will not last: what will happen? Were will it start? Where will it end? Where will its employees/executives end up? There sure could be a lot of people on the streets.
Who can predict the future?
What does the writing on the wall say?
Factors that are driving the change are DOJ investigations, more instances where only evidence based therapies are allowed, increased awareness of patients that many therapies have only lackluster success rates, continued downward price pressures, and ever more rules that will govern every step of the process: clinical research, rep training, selling, physician education, HIPPA, sponsorships, financial reporting, and on and on.... The irony of course is that in the end nobody will win, not even the patients. Imagine that all the treatments we take for granted would have had to go though today's processes, which are devoid of any common sense. For example, hip and knee prostheses and pedicle screws would not be available.
ReplyDeleteDavid@X-Spine:
ReplyDeleteIs it typical to "sell" implants to independent distributors?....Then said distributor "buys" older generation implants from another company, and finally introduces a pedicle screw that is 'truly unique' yet the Aesculap screw appears REAL similar!......Hey what do you know?! It's Spine360! Surgeons making 30 points per month on hardware?....Just sayin'
"Those surgeons" are idiots! If they'd gone to Sea Spine, Lanx or K2M they be making some real bank! "Shit" be more like 40 or 50 points!!! "Just sayin'"
ReplyDeleteyet these companies do not go as far as Spine Smith and the Dunworths. Hoping to be sold with nothing to sell
ReplyDeleteHello! Here is the latest orthopaedic news.
ReplyDelete1:15 p.m. Strategic orthopaedic-related 510(k)s issued in February2010 include:
Intervertebral Body Fusion Device (Binder Biomedical); AVAmax Vertebral Balloon (CareFusion); MetaFix Femoral Stem (Corin); Carrigen Bone Void Filler (ETEX); Bone Plates and Screw System (Ortho Select Implant Technology); ArthroSteer Ablator & Coagulator (OrthoDynamix); EdgeLock Plate System (OrthoHelix); Integrated System for Vertebroplasty (Skeltex); Atlas Intervertebral Body Cage (Spinal Edge); Anterior Cervical Plate System (Spine 360)
Hello! Here is the latest orthopaedic news.
ReplyDelete1:15 p.m. Strategic orthopaedic-related 510(k)s issued in February2010 include:
Intervertebral Body Fusion Device (Binder Biomedical); AVAmax Vertebral Balloon (CareFusion); MetaFix Femoral Stem (Corin); Carrigen Bone Void Filler (ETEX); Bone Plates and Screw System (Ortho Select Implant Technology); ArthroSteer Ablator & Coagulator (OrthoDynamix); EdgeLock Plate System (OrthoHelix); Integrated System for Vertebroplasty (Skeltex); Atlas Intervertebral Body Cage (Spinal Edge); Anterior Cervical Plate System (Spine 360)
Funny how people are saying Spine 360 got "shut down" and wow low and behold they have been issued a new 510k
ReplyDeletehey it's a really nice plate too by the way!
ReplyDeleteHeard Chris Canis left Verticor and went to work for XSpine as the COO???
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ReplyDeleteKey your eyes out for Resonant Medical. They don't market; the play local. Same tune, different words.
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ReplyDeleteChris Canis was never good at his job and as a sales person who sold products for the company he had a very adversarial approach to helping sales people, he was very rude most of the time and acted in a very disgruntled manor, while I have great respect for xspine im not sure why they would want to bring in someone so negative. I hope they listen to the complaints of their sales people better than Verticor did. I really dont think it's relative that Mr Canis only completed high school.
ReplyDeleteChris Canis is a class act!! Very knowledgable, professional and business-minded! My distributorship has had the pleasure of working with Chris the last two years and I haven't met a more positive and helpful individual in the industry! BTW, why do you think he left Verticor??? Not hard to figure out....
ReplyDeleteHe only worked for the company for a year-
ReplyDeleteRiders on the Storm, Into this house we're born, into this world we're thrown, Like a dog without a bone, an actor out alone, Riders on the Storm..........
ReplyDeleteIf you give this man a ride, sweet memories will die
ReplyDeletehe's a killer on the road
I know for a fact that both principals were involved in a similar scam some years ago. The FDA invesigation stalled when the hospital involved declined to open themselves up to litigation. Perhaps they wont be so luck this time. A corporate name change does not change the faces behind the company.
ReplyDeleteI came here looking for good info because I'm going to start carrying Verticor's line, which seems to be a pretty solid line as far as I can tell. I found this asinine collection of garbage to be even less useful and more vitriolic than the swill from the disillusioned morons that post on Cafe Pharma. Thanks, dingbats. Almost every one of you absolutely sucks.
ReplyDeleteIf the government isn't going after these companies why are surgeons being subpoenaed?
ReplyDeleteVery instructive posts on another Verticor topic in this blog. Attached below. Perhaps all of the dipsticks here could read these entries and shut their cavernous cakeholes:
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
I have put considerable effort into finding any shred of evidence that the accusations of DOJ investigations are true. I have not been able to find a single document. A single paragraph. Nothing. All I have been able to find is baseless aspersions on this blog. Logic dictates that the person who claims something exists is responsible for providing evidence for his claim. If no one reading this blog can provide any such evidence, then the claim must be treated like claims bigfoot exists-- as pure fantasy. If there is any truth to this accusation of DOJ investigations or substandard PEEK, there is proof in digital-land. I challenge anyone who is making these assertions to provide a link to the evidence. Surely the local paper in Texas where Verticor is based would have written an article, a column, or at least had a blip about it. That would exist somewhere on the internet. It would be helpful to us all, and would lend something this conversation is devoid of: substance.
JUNE 4, 2010 6:27 PM
Anonymous said...
Maybe you should contact the local FBI office in West Texas.. I'm sure they could help to answer your question regarding the investigation with Verticor... Hmmm...
JUNE 27, 2010 12:34 AM
To the douchebag above who ended his comment with a dishonest "Hmmmm . . .", I called the FBI office in San Antonio. You can do it yourself, moron, if you're smart enough to operate a telephone. Here's the number: 210-225-6741. Go ahead and call. Here's what they'll tell you: They don't tell the public when they're investigating a company. How about the DOJ, which other nimrods on this blog have referenced? Ditto. They don't tell the public that companies are being investigated, and they don't tell them the nature of investigations that they undertake.
So let's consider: A bunch of bitter douchebags on a blog vomit 200 entries of venom about a company, hurling specific allegations and vague innuendo, and THEY HAVE NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF. Nothing. So I guess we should take what these nameless nutsacks say on faith? OR perhaps we could consider the likely alternative that all of them are full of it.
I don't think any of the smug innuendo specialists on this blog are SAS/CIA trained intelligence officers. So let's try this: If you can't produce some evidence-- NOT ACCUSATION OR INNUENDO-- but evidence, then don't bother posting anything else. Your jig is up.
As God is my witness, I can guarantee all of you that I have had numerous phone calls with federal agents and trips to the FBI bldg to answer questions pertaining to Verticor. Yes they were raided by the DOJ, but not sure of the outcome. The Stanafords are the ones defending the allegations on this post, which I think is hilarious. Just watch, you haven't heard the last about them. Guys like them do not have the ability to run a clean business. It will all come crashing down one day, and I guess at that time you'll have your so called PROOF that all of you are looking for.
ReplyDeleteIn fact I am the one who defended the company on this post, and I don't even know who the Stanafords are or they are really even the principals of Verticor. I'm not even associated with the company, it just pissed me off 2 years ago when I was considering working with them and I saw people denigrating them. And it pisses me off now.
DeleteI think that Verticor has recently been purchased by another company. If that's so, I hardly think that would have happened if they had pending legal issues. What company in its right mind would buy a company being investigated by the Feds? None.
If anyone believes Mr. March 16, find out for yourself by calling the number I posted above: 210-225-6741. You will find that if God is indeed witnessing what Mr. March 16 says, then one lying douchebag better get ready for a long, hot bath. You can also Google it to your heart's content. The only mention you'll find of such wrongdoing is here on TSB. And the unsupported accusations of anonymous douchebags with agendas cannot be considered evidence.
The Stanafords could be great guys, they could be total pricks (like most executives). I don't know them and I know nothing about them, so I can't defend their personalities. The point is that no one has the right to hurl vicious, baseless allegations. What if someone did that to you? Well, if you have done it to others, then you deserve it. So mind your own damn business and you'll have more of it to mind.