Friday, August 12, 2011

Eve of Destruction or Reconstruction? You Be the Judge

Interestingly, a few of our bloggers commented that rather than focus on the negative in spine, how do we change the public's perception and police the industry ourselves, especially in light of the controversy swirling around POD's and INFUSE?  First a few observations. Why do bloggers attack one another with senseless insults when it comes to critiquing others strategic plans, ethics, products, and performance of specific spine companies?  Does it make any sense?  Where is Dr. Drew Pinsky when you need him? Defending oneself only adds credibility to one's culpability.  Rather than directing your high levels of testosterone at one another, isn't it time to use some of that testosterone to call out the executive management teams at some of these companies?  Don't you have any gonads boys and girls?  The leadership skill of some of these executives are no different than what we are witnessing in our own government. Blame everyone else for the current state of affairs rather than being held accountable for your past actions, lack of vision and innovation.  Does anyone drive looking over the horizon rather than what is in front of the hood of the car?

The constitution of this industry is a microcosm of a larger phenomena, and at present we have the opportunity to either be heard, or end up as collateral damage. We can have a generational debate, but the reality is that tenured professionals were once young, and the young eventually end up being tenured professionals.  It's a cycle, we can either stand united or fall divided.  You can either demand accountability or continue to drink the kool-aid.  The only difference between the spine industry and Jonestown is hopefully you will live to talk about it.  Forget about AdvaMed, a self-serving lame duck joke at best, forget NASS, they can't even keep their own house in order, what we need is a manifesto that outlines acceptable behavior to preserve our own existence. You can blame the Government, you can cast blame on the FDA, you can call out the insurance industry, you can call patients irresponsible, you can even call out surgeons that manipulate the environment to line their pockets with a few shekels, yet, until we change our own behavior and accept accountability for our contributions to this industry, nothing will change.  If you want to do something right, do it yourselves. Think about the absurdity of our industry.  Companies continue to hire the Usual Suspects with the belief that those individuals can bring some secret formula from a Medtronic, DePuy, Stryker, Synthes (RIP), Zimmer or Biomet.  The industry regurgitates the same individuals over and over, and what are the results?  How insane is it that companies rely on an idiotic poll or survey to determine whether an individual will succeed or fail?  If ever there was a time to establish a precedent for the future, the time is now. Whatever happened to getting to know someone for who they are, for what they have accomplished and whether they have an excellent work ethic?  We do love self-promoters, don't we? Are there any real leaders out there?  Can anyone make a responsible decision without worrying about being fired? You would think the shareholders run our companies. Are we experiencing the death of common sense?  Have we become so specialized that we have rendered ourselves insensible?

Division and uncontrolled greed is not good.  It serves no purpose.  Some of you will argue that greed is good, but greed is only good if it serves a greater purpose.   Some will say that the end justifies the means, keep rationalizing your actions.  As the heart and soul of free market enterprise, your attacks should be directed at the management teams rather than one another.  So why do some comments offend some bloggers?  Because your portfolio sucks?  Because your R&D department has no talent?  Because the new management team that was brought in from one of the giants in the industry continues to do the same thing over and over expecting different results, pirating their former employers distribution network in hopes of a major windfall?  Now there's creativity at its best, or, is it insanity at its best?  The fact is that we all have to earn a living, and the only way we will survive is if take our own action.  How many consultants can we hire so that they can change the design of another screwdriver?  So what does all this mean?  How do we do create a change?  Who leads?  Who follows?  Do we call out those organizations and surgeons that use nefarious and unhanded schemes for their own benefit, or do we idle in neutral and watch while Rome burns?  Why are we supporting organizations like NASS, CNS, AAOS, and AANS if they themselves continue to do the same thing over and over again?  Why don't trade industry professionals have their own forum at NASS, AAOS, CNS, or AANS, we are the foot soldiers that contribute to the temples that each company builds to pay homage to their slavish followers, or are we the slavish followers? TSB can only be your forum, as my great grandfather once said, "when a man's back is to the wall, you can either roll up your sleeves and fight, or you can roll over like a puppy dog."So TSB wants to know how do we effect change?

My blood's so mad it feels like coagulatin'
I'm sitting here just contemplatin'
I can't twist the truth, it knows no regulation
Handful of senators can't pass legislation
And marches alone can't bring integration
When human respect in disintegratin'
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin'

45 years later, and things still remain the same, insanity?  You make the call.

162 comments:

  1. For anyone out there that carries Bacterin products credible sources say a large scale recall is eminent. Due to falsified Med/Soc histories of donors. Is this why the VP of Biologics and Director of QA are gone?

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  2. No surprise. They were scratching everywhere looking for tissue. Hernandez is now gone and he certainly knows where the skeletons are. Enough about that failure known as Bacterin...lets stay on the post.

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  3. Although I still enjoy this blog (otherwise I wouldn't be here), I am often shocked how the professionalism has gone down hill. I literally stumbled on this blog within it's first month of exsistence. For the first 18 months (give or take) the discussions were kept professional and very little name calling occurred. Then the cafepharma effect took place.

    I wish I could understand why this occurs. I'm an A personality myself, I enjoy nothing more than beating my closest competitor at his/her own game. Aside from that, I realize they are just another human being with a family to feed and a life to enjoy. Every single one of us lives in a glass house. Whether you work for MDT, Alphatec, Spine 360...whoever, every single company has a skeleton or two, every company has holes in their portfolio, etc. You could even argue that every company could be more innovative. Until we perfect all the problems of the spinal world and come up with perfection, we all need to be more innovative. So since we all live in glass houses, why the need to bloviate and throw stones? Calling someone a name, correcting their spelling errors (as I write this on my iPhone I undoubtedly have a few), pointing out each others flaws... Pointless. What needs to be done, and has been done fairly well in this blog if you omit the 12 year old chatter, is frank discussions on how we can improve our industry as a whole. It's ok to point out weaknesses if done so in a intelligent manner. Or possible improvements to the delivery of effective spinal care. I long for civil discussions that don't break down into ,"my dick is bigger than yours" discussions. Let's act like the highly paid professionals we say we are. Let's take a keen interest in the clinical applications of our products and better business models to deliver them.

    The entire world has the ability to read sites such as this and see our professionalism or lack thereof on display. The surgeons and patients who read this probably do think we are overpaid the way we act. It's ok to think someone an asshole, but keep it professional and fight them with intelligence and stay above the fray. Again, lets work on moving the ball forward, not sounding like a bunch of whiners undeserving of the nice paychecks we all should be extremely grateful for. And should continue to work hard for everyday...

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  4. Sacrates is alive!

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  5. 8:48, I couldnt agree more, best comment I have read on here in a while.

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  6. need a "like" button for 8:48's comments

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  7. Great Post! Aren't we suppoed to find out more about the POD stuff today?

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  8. 8:48 here again...

    The only point I forgot to add. The only way the medical community and the companies we represent will continue to respect all of us is to adhere to the things I mention above. I implore those who frequent this blog to remain professional while here, on the job, and within earshot of other professionals within our community. What you say on your off time to friends/family is perfectly ok. And for god's sake pick up a medical journal now and then and keep educated on this extremely interesting profession we are blessed to participate in!

    Phew, feels good to get that off my chest. Off my soap box. Back to my corner.

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  9. The best mechanism to improve the overall quality of our side of this industry is to hold accounatable the considerable number of d-bags and back door aholes that seem to be everywhere in this industry. It seems the majority of these folks land at small to mid tier manufactures - most likely due to the fact that they couldn't cut it as a rep. I am not advocating name calling and the cafepharma BS but there are legit issues of fraud that exist all over the place. It only encourages more misdealing, misleading and poor moral standing when a rep, who has no business being in this industry, is "sucessful" through lying to hospital staff or, from the manufactures side, cherry picks territory just to better deal an honest rep who is building business "the right way". Know anyone like that? I have distributed a large number of small to mid teir manufactures' products and most of the people are solid, honest proffessionals. There are a few though that just need to go away. Not sure where the line of name calling and meaningfull notice is drawn but if you don't like someone's haircut or their breath stinks, best leave that alone, on the other hand, if you are legitmately screwed I think that information can be useful. Being mindful of anything that could be construed as slander, of course.....

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  10. So it looks like common sense is returning to this site.

    Fixing our industry starts with defining what a professional in our industry is.

    Lets start with honesty, focus, hard working, critical thinker, astute, good listener and does not take themselves too serious.

    I'm sure there are more but this is a start.

    Ask yourself how many of these traits you exhibit. Nobody is perfect. It takes constant effort.

    Could the problems in our industry be more indicitive of our society.

    Lets do things cheap and quick. If your not cheating your not trying.

    Maybe we the next blog topic should be "The lost Art of Selling"

    I believe this blog is a good first start and a line in the sand toward setting standards and exchaging of ideas. No more shouting. No more arrogance.

    Help me Help you!
    - Jerry McGuire

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  11. 10:47 - agreed on some points. It's ok to discuss what we see out there, right or wrong. The line is drawn however, by sticking to the facts and keep the language professional and respectful. The second you go below the line it draws out raw emotion and all logical arguments go out the door. Fraud and abuse exists everywhere, among companies/industries of all sizes. Anytime more than two humans are in a room the potential for things going downhill exists. The thought that some have that their company is pure while others are not is naive. Let's point continue to discuss what's wrong and how we think it might be fixed, but let's stick to the high road while we embark on that journey.

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  12. Agreed 10:57. I'd like to think we could transform this blog back into the professional forum it was always intended to be.

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  13. so let me get this straight....Bacterin is about to get a major recall? is this not the same company that has reported a huge growth in the company Q1 and Q2...the same company that has solid investors.....dont understand why a company with so much promise could be issuing a recall.....


    so let me ask you....what are the top 5 biologics for fusion? lets not even include infuse....because we all know that thing works....a little too well

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  14. TSB and 8:48, excellent thoughts, comments. I am inclined to stop reading this blog when the comments posted are name calling and downright rude. If we are professionals then we need to act like professionals, especially on a blog that is open to all our customers as well as our colleagues.

    TSB, the stock holders do run the companies. I am sure anyone on this blog who has been in management has seen many decisions made because of how the stock price will be affected! It is incredible that products are launched before being ready, people are laid off and companies are bought and sold just to see an upward movement of the stock. I am all for capitalism but where is common sense? So yes people are afraid if they do not go along with the insanity at the top they will be fired. Sad comment on our business but true.

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  15. seems to me like Bacterin is catching a bad wrap now that most of the vitoss distributors are moving over to Bacterin.

    Can I say....Stryker pot stirrers are back at it?

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  16. 11:28, 8:48 here. I agree on your assessment. Although not much can be done because this is how our world economy is run. For now at least.

    Great article I saw some time ago that relates somewhat to your comments regarding the motivations behind management decisions. I thought it was a good analogy.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-martin/post_1975_b_853074.html

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  17. There goes all that out of the box thinking. Just go to someone like Stryker there hasn't been an out of the box moment in years.

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  18. I'm new to spine, though I've been in medical device (regulatory) for over 15 years. Since I've been in spine for such a short time I consider myself an outsider with an outsider's prospective. With regard to the state of the spine side of the medical device industry, I can say with confidence that there is little going on in spine that isn't also going on in IVD, or any other part of the medical device industry. The problems in spine are not unique to spine and they are not new. The problems in general are the result of a burdensome regulatory regime that favors industry leaders (Medtronic, et al) due to successful efforts by these companies to shape regulation, and the industry’s relationships with corruptible surgeons and members of Congress. These issues combine to plays a key role in the design, development and commercialization of new spine technologies. A comprehensive review of and modification to the various regulatory requirements and the practical implementation of these changes would be the cornerstone of a new era in spine and spur medical device innovation. Right now the major barriers to moving innovative technologies from the bench to surgery in the safest and most efficient way stem from the lack of precise scientifically based data about testing, regulatory approval and post market controls, all of which favor a few leaders in our industry. Over the last couple of years, highly publicized recalls and more recently issues with PODs and Infuse have sparked this debate about ways to improve the spine industry, which is great. What’s been missing in the debate however, is the current regulatory atmosphere and how it contributes to the process of innovation and how it can be used to improve the industry but more importantly, patient outcomes.
    All of this being said, I wouldn't hold my breath for any major changes in regulation or policy. Recently the IOM made a recommendation (in a review that the FDA requested) that the FDA scrap the 510(k) process. The IOM determined that the 510(k) process had been “transformed into a premarket evaluation of safety and effectiveness when the standard for clearance is substantial equivalence to any previously cleared device.” The FDA greeted the recommendation with a collective yawn and a, we'll take it under advisement. Which brings us full circle to TSBs original point that we have to police ourselves because more regulation, which is sure to come if we don't, is not good for any of us.

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  19. 8:43 I see nothing anywhere about your claim that Bacterin has an imminent recall. Can you share any more insight? This could be huge, especially if the allegations of fudging med/soc histories is true. It would probably cause the doors to be locked.

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  20. 12:37 It will take a bit of time to flow from New Life Generation to Bacterin. Follow the BTS Mastramarino situation a few years back. Huge recall; hundreds of lawsuits.

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  21. TSB - Barry McGuire lyrics!! Cool! You can't be that old.

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  22. Can't we all just get along?

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  23. No POD news?!!!!!

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  24. BONE bag holders. "High commission agents will be replaced with lower commission directs.." Did you not hear that yesterday on the conf call. Yes I too heard about a pending recall. JH took the fall.

    Enough about BONE..go post on the yahoo board with the rest of the Yahoo's. This blog is for viable companies..at least most are.

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  25. Don't understand why an established distributor with loyal surgeons would sign with Bacterin only to get undercut within a year by their direct sales people.

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  26. http://investor.bacterin.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=234008&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1593729&highlight=

    It is pretty coincidental all the moves that have just happened and Jesus leaving. Where there's smoke..........

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  27. Jesus wasn't exactly the messiah. Perhaps his departue is not as critical as some of you believe. I mean, their flagship is just demineralized bone. To be the VP of R&D, that had to have been the easiest job in the world with no expectations.

    The growth factor levels that they claim are from a single donor (STRESS JUST ONE) who coincidentally was a best case 27 year old male. Wonder how many donors they actually tested before picking the best one to report.

    They claim "osteoinductive" for Osteosponge. This is an FDA violation as they DO NOT test every donor for either growth factor levels nor in a Urist model. Even if they did, the best they could claim is "osteoinductive potential". Wonder if they will get bitchslapped by the FDA if they get big enough to draw attention.

    I hear they have supply issues. Does anyone have info on that or the tissue recall?

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  28. To 8:48:

    I could not agree with you more. I would rate your post a five star if there was a rating (Hint: TSB, maybe you should add that to the site). As leaders of the industry, we need to post our comments as if they were attached to your name. TSB wants to keep the "anonymous" choice alive because it keeps edgy comments coming, adding to the site's popularity. So stay edgy and provocative but keep it professional and thoughtful because, as 8:48 said, there are patients, surgeons and others who are reading this same site. Be smart!

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  29. As simple as it may seem, "WE" are the spine industry. It is not some nebulous entity. There are certain things that we cannot control, what a board of directors or investors are thinking or why they are directing a company in a certain direction, however we can control ourselves. The key word I believe is integrity. What happened to individual integrity? We control so much of what happens in the field, "WE" are the competitors, "WE" are the distributors, the direct reps, the men and women who stand on the convention floor selling our products, greeting our friends, and trying to make a living. "WE" are the ones in the OR helping to make a case go well.....but we should NEVER forget that there is a patient under that drape. "WE" should remember to do our jobs with integrity and at the end of the day know that "WE" have made a contribution in some small or large way to helping patients live a better life, whatever the patient defines as better. Look around you my friends in spine, no matter if Globus goes public, POD's are legal or not, what Medtronic does with Infuse, whether or not another small company will come into the business, we are more fortunate than many of our fellow citizens. Our paychecks may not be what they were but look around you, "WE" are still what most people would consider very successful and well compensated. I'm not saying that we all wouldn't like to make more money, but if we have to sacrafice our integrity to do so, what price is success? The word professional keeps appearing in the comments, imagine a spine world where professionalism and integrity were the mantra that we lived by?

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  30. 7:28, spot on!

    The comments on this latest post give me hope. There are still those of us in spine who enjoy learning the business and clinical aspects, have respect for patients, and show up for the love of this business even with all it's flaws. I sadly doubt that the cafepharma types can hold their tongue for too long and will inevitably do their best to keep lowering the intelligence bar on this site, but at least their is a core group of us with the maturity to debate our industry in a proper manner. Hooray!

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  31. TSB, let us know if someone asks you to delete above posts regarding Bacterin.

    Yahoo just took the rare step of being asked to take down an entire string of posts on their BONE board regarding above, and they did. Interesting.

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  32. 7:28

    Fantastic Post! As long as I can make enough money to take care of my family with a little left over for some fun...I'm good with that. The key is living within your means. Happiness is not just a 5,000 square foot house, it's about the fact that we get the priviledge to be a part of medicine in a way alot of others never will. That brings me happiness. Being able to read an X-ray, an MRI, Understanding in depth conversations about someone's condition, seeing people that surgeries truly help. That's a reward for some of us, not all, but some. This job is what you make of it..."WE" are perceived as successful just by making it to this level, now it's up to "US" all to decide how we live up to that day in and day out.

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  33. The last couple post were great. I agree with everything you all said. I have been in this business since 1998 and have seen such a shift in the professionalism and especially on this site (blog). I can't wait to see all the negative back slapping you would have gotten had you posted your comments on a week day when all they "know it all's are sitting in the OR lounge reading and making comments on here.
    But hey, it gives me hope as well that there are still some good guys out there. I too, do this job for myself and my family and take it personally when "we" are attacked for what “we” do for a living. This career I have chosen has given me a lot of pride and responsibilities that the normal person out on the streets could not fathom or understand the magnitude of the responsibilities we have. I hang my head up high and thank GOD each and every day I have it.
    Good selling to you all.

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  34. Wow. A post and comments that were actually enjoyable to read. This was a nice change from the name-calling, genital measuring comments which have seem to become the norm on here. I typically read this blog and do not comment simply because I am too busy with "our" job.

    As most of you know, this job is all-consuming. Our work, social lives and family lives become woven with people from this industry/profession. Our friends are coworkers and physicians. Our kids play sports together. Our families travel together. My first boss did not warn me of this as it is not a negative aspect. He simply stated that if you were to be successful in this position, this would be the way you need to approach this profession. The more time I spend in this profession, the more prevalent it becomes. With that being said, some of the banter that goes on between bloggers on here is not only disrespectful to my chosen career, but also to the physicians/families/coworkers we call friends.

    I read a lot of comments on here about people who are extremely successful, have huge business-laden territories and look forward to publicly chiding each other as a demonstration of their status in the industry. I implore those of you who participate in this activity to take this specific blog from TSB and these postings we have seen over the past few days to heart. Believe me, those who have status in this industry do not have the time to participate in such behavior. We also view our chosen careers differently than you do.

    Please consider this before posting derogatory comments and consistently lowering the expected maturity level of the professionals who read this blog to discuss the challenges and successes in our industry. We appreciate it.

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  35. Are you asking, where's the future going to come from?

    I don't know, but probably not from any of the big players. They're not interested in risk. To really lead, you have to be willing to shoulder risk. You don't interest capital with risk. You don't get to be president of the company by risking, and failing, which is part of the risk equation.

    So there's the problem, every executive in the industry is trying to build the numbers without risk. That's why we have a million cervical plates, a million pedicle screw systems, a million "me too" products.

    Every new product has to explain to upper management "how we win". Well, if it's truly innovative, it might fail. You don't get ahead by failing. So we play it safe with another me too product that cannibalizes business from some other product.

    So you're president of Synthes, or Zimmer, you can't make money on the top line (sales), where do you make it? The bottom line: you cut commisions, sales-people, investment in R and D...

    and so it goes. This is how you build a moribund industry, not a thriving one.

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  36. Glad I wasn't the only one to recall Jerry McGuire.

    10:57am: Thanks for the smile because I could almost hear Cuba, help me help you!

    Ya know, TSB, we really have become a lump of name-calling, nit-picking, overly-envious folks who come here more to spread animosity, fear and disinformation than simply add to, agree or disagree with your posts. I don't make much, especially compared to the folks who've been selling spine products for 10+ years. But I won't sell my soul or stab someone else in the back, no matter how often it's been done to me. Thanks for the post and keeping the compass properly aligned. Btw, you wouldn't happen to be Dicky Fox's brother, would you?

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  37. Jesus absolutely was the messiah.

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  38. ..and Allah was his prophet.. Allahu Akbar! Death to infidels..and pods...and incompetent management..and..

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  39. The cafepharma types are creeping back in. At least we had a few days off...

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  40. All true TSB, but trying to turn it around is like trying to get Congress to all agree. Everyone has their own agendas.

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  41. TSB, this is the future...

    Front end real-time reporting. All product being tracked via RFID or barcode or the like. Me too manufacturers rise to the top paying 30% commissions to independent reps for non-stocking and 60% or higher for stocking. Brand name companies fall back into the shadows unloading antiquated inventory to hospitals in foreign countries going after vacation surgery market. The only brand name companies that will remain are those that pull a magical system out of their hat that cost them a fortune to build and they will pursue high volume reps, none of which are their own, to distribute the product - all outside of the traditional non-compete. Competition will drive it all (No More non-competes). PODS will die off, capitated pricing won't matter with $250 screws, bad press will beat down the surgery trends and reps will live comfortably doing half the work they use to for only $200k a year. Centralized distribution, direct or non-direct, will be gone. Companies will have sales recruiters and product engineers driving their product to the independent reps on the front lines. The reps on the front lines will manage/organize/report all business through software driven systems from a tablet PC in the OR directly to the top. No more DP's, AM, RM or sales administrators. Say goodbye to inventory managers too.

    12:14pm said it best...
    "So you're president of Synthes, or Zimmer, you can't make money on the top line (sales), where do you make it? The bottom line: you cut commisions, sales-people, investment in R and D..."

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  42. What 6:29 AM said!

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  43. A boat-load of money could be saved at the company I rep for by cutting all but a few live customer service reps, and making everything electronic (i.e. all orders are placed via an electronic form optimized for an iPad-type interface).

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  44. 6:56AM - Please describe your definition of a boat....is it a 10 ft boat or a 100ft boat.

    I'm quite sure the customer service reps aren't making $200K year!!!

    In addition, the consensus of the past few months is CUSTOMER SERVICE is one of the keys to maintaining and/or gaining market share.

    Eliminating customer service reps is like putting a band aid on a gunshot wound.

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  45. 7:05,

    I think you should re-read the post(s). Are you referring to customer service as the ones who takes inventory orders or independent reps? Independent reps will stay but most of customer service(order takers) will go. If the system is automated or ordering is software driven then yes a "boat load" can be saved.

    Definition: extremely large yacht with a full tank of gas and bags of money in the hull.

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  46. 7:23am is correct. That is exactly the way I meant for my post to be interpreted.

    ~6:56am

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  47. Anybody know if the Nuvasive XLF (lateral "Mosaic" - spacer/plate) is an approved stand alone device?

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  48. Of course it's approved.....buy lots and lots of them please.

    Regards,
    Alex L.
    San Diego

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  49. It's funny TSB, there isn't one single thought or sentiment that's new in your post or the string of comments that followed. You've been respectfully steadfast on this theme and many an 8:48 have come before. The only thing new is the consistency of the constructive rather than destructive support.

    Which leads me to conclude that your readership may have been delivered out of Anger and is entering the third stage of Grief: Bargaining!*

    (This transformation comes coincidentally after a week of market volatility that would make anyone with 401K or $1BN in savings dizzy with nausea.)

    Irrespective, keep hammering away. Once expectations and attitudes change maybe, only then, will actions. Of course, I always told my sister, you're not ever gonna change a loser (that's the long view), and then again, she may not be as persuasive as unemployment (the short view).

    Cheers and Godspeed to those who deliver VALUE.

    Adios to those who deliver desperation packaged as rants.

    *I can't say we've made it to Acceptance, not just yet.

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  50. Thank you Dalai Lama for gracing us with your Wisdom...LMAO...

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  51. I am really enjoying the more pleasant and respectful exchanges brought forth from this latest edition of TSB.

    It like a nicely scented breath of fresh air.

    I would hope that more upon more of you articulate and cerebral professional inundate the spinal sales market.

    Why you ask ?

    The answer is simple.
    The spine sales world is not for the faint of heart.
    Not for the person that is happy just to make enough to pay the bills and have a little left over.

    This is the NFL.
    This is Dawinism.
    This is where the weak Die.

    If you are a competitor.

    I take great pleasure in you not paying your Bills.
    I hope that I take food off of your family's plate.

    I am Only doing You a favor so that you can move on and find a career that is truley suited for you and you can then thrive.

    Enough of the 'Lets get along BS'.

    If you are on my team then I will bury reps alongside and for you.

    If you are not, I wish you luck.

    Just the basics folks......

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  52. 6:47: Kill what you eat and eat what you kill, I get it. That being said, the retarded gang banger talk that increasingly populates these boards has no place here. Acting professional does not mean I am complacent and any less competitive. It does however mean I'm a mature adult.

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  53. 6:47 You are a "what ever it takes" kind of guy. We need guys like you in counter-terrorism, and national security. That attitude totally is necessary when it comes to our nation's safety.

    But this is MEDICAL SALES!

    You attitude crosses the line between the aggressive salesman and the unethical salesman.

    But I guess you now do not have a problem with successful POD's as they also plan on taking food off your family's plate. After all, they are doing you a favor.

    I enjoyed the civility of the recent post until I saw yours. I felt compelled to post, and to let you know that you are an A-hole.

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  54. 6:47 I agree with 7:00, nothing has been said that intimates you should not compete, it only says that you can compete and still be professional and still have integrity. How dare you think that because we choose to do our jobs with integrity that we are less than. How dare you think that you will only be successful because we fail....your success should come from your knowledge, your relationships and your, dare I say, professionalism and integrity. Failure is not because of honesty, integrity and professionalism. Failure is thinking that your actions today stepping on and over anyone in your way will ensure your career in spine will last forever. Next time you are at NASS take a look around at those who have survived, thrived and have been successful in the spine business, they don't look like you, they will be those who are successful because of knowledge and a quiet professionalism doing their jobs with integrity and still being able to be competitors.

    ReplyDelete
  55. What leads the previous posters to believe that the 6:47 post was advocating professional sales reps to act greedy, Immature, unehtical or gang-bangerish ?

    From my observations with over 18 years in this industry has taught me just the opposite.
    The unethical, immoral, unprofessional reps have very little chance of long term success in this field.

    To be successful over time one must amass a tremendous amount of experience to act as a true resource to all on a daily basis in the surgical theater.

    You must have good proctd and know your products better than anyone.
    Show respect everyone that you come in contact with.
    Have a work ethic that surpases all competitors.
    Help surgeons to treat spinal pathology so that they heal patients.

    I can go on as there is a long list of necessary positive attributes.
    The sales world is very basic.
    I sell - you lose sales = I gain dollar volume and you fail.

    Most of us have been on both sides of that competitive scenario.
    Truly eat or be eaten.
    After all this is MEDiCAL SALES !

    ReplyDelete
  56. 8:47 How is it even sales when the local distributor hires a spine surgeons son to work for them? This surgeon raised his kid to sponge off of a local distributor. What a proud family. Do products and service fit into your assessment? As for long term success, there is a surgeons son who has been riding his fathers wave for many years now. No need to name him. He knows who he is. I cannot compete against that. Even though he is not the direct representative for his father, everyone benefits.

    ReplyDelete
  57. I gotta say that I have a "man crush" on the old spine doc...

    6:47, you are prolly too busy doing push-ups and watching Rambo in hi-def and tuggin it to Anthony Robbins tapes to understand just how bad you stepped on your ding-a-ling during your spine career. It all makes sense now, you're the dude that was listening to "Thunderstruck" in the parking lot while getting ready for your acdf sales call...hmmm, that's really not taking marketshare from us or stealing food off our table.

    Which company do you work for 6:47? My guess is Stryker....go back to the gym and go pump yourself.
    I'm not sure if I want you protecting our borders either? You seem like a solid candidate for "being able to screw up a wet dream"

    Go back to being a strength coach at your alma mater, which is prolly a Division III football program. Tell the ole boys about all the surgeries you did that would've never been possible had you not been in the room.

    Actually, PLEASE DON'T LEAVE...I LOVE selling against doorknobs like you

    Thanks,
    Every spine rep in the U.S.

    ReplyDelete
  58. I give up. Civility is dead. RIP....

    ReplyDelete
  59. 9:46

    Go ahead and bash a D3 football program...we all know you were a male cheerleader at your D1 program and you drive a minivan. By the way, the wife said pick up some tampons for her on your way home.

    I'm a spine rep and I sell with class, professionalism and knowledge.....please don't put me in your caveman stereotype.

    Can I suggest de-caf and get off the "roids".

    I'll bet you probably got tossed from your kids little league game and bragged about it for months!!!!

    If you can't sell with class - than please, please stay in this business and one day you will be shining my doorknob.

    ReplyDelete
  60. "Tuggin it to Anthony Robbins?" "You will be shining my doorknob?" The world is right, spine reps are over paid.

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  61. Talk about class... What a shameful and sad sight of posts. The sense of entitlement on here is disgusting. YOU. ARE. LAZY.

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  62. 6:47 if you were any type of professional you would have just ignored the back lash on your post. Maybe you should think twice before oyu post knowing that on this blog you get what you ask for as about 80% of the "people" on this blog are unprofessional and lack integrity and class.
    It amazing how refeshing the post are on the weekends and then BAMMM Monday hits and all the wannabes wake up slap some 'ole Spice on and hit TSB to let some frustrations out.

    I think I will stick to reading this Blog on Sat/Sun.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Agree w last two posts. Except the old spice comment- hands down the best deodorant on the market, with the best marketing! Take everything from this site w a grain of salt.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Answer = RECONSTRUCTION

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  65. Old Spice Swagger deodorant is, and has always been, the key to my success. Sure, the ladies love it, but the effect it has had on spine surgeons is unparalleled. Leave the white papers at home, gents. Slather on some swagger before you leave the house and you're good to go.

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  66. again, 9:23 shows what a low class you all are! I think most of you should know that we in the OR read these post too and it has really shown the true colors of most of you. While most of us absolutely love some of our reps, rememeber we run the ship here you are only visitors. We have to live here 7-4pm 5 sometimes 6 days a week and you roll your butt in here for a 3-5hr case do your paperwork and then drive your SUV's home. Please try and rememeber, this is our home and we invite you to be a visitor and that my friendly sales rep, cause that’s what you are, sales reps, is like having a drivers license…it’s a privilege not a right. Good day to you all. I have a patient to check in,.

    ReplyDelete
  67. 10:11,

    I agree about the nonsense language. Probably stems from similar frustrations you have in the OR but let's be clear...we don't just drive home. We are not just case coverage specialists, we handle sales, reporting, inventory management on the front end, product ordering, and at times logistics management in order to make sure everything is needed in time for that next case you were in that went so smoothe because we were in a hospital cross-town at 10pm cleaning equipment in SPD so it was in your SPD by 6am the next morning. Yes we make good money but most of us are overworked, subject to your poor attitude and high maintenance surgeons who want everything from custom instruments to real estate advice and paid for dinners at top notch restaraunts. Please read between the lines, observe the high road and do not pay attention to the disgruntled...in other words do the same thing you do with your own staff.

    with love,

    The guy who makes sure your cases go smoothe and the surgeon doesn't make your life pure misery xoxoxo

    PS...don't forget to hug your rep today!

    ReplyDelete
  68. 10:11, "slather on some swagger..." is low class? How so? Other comments, yes. But that is humor or an attempt at it (if you didn't find it funny). As mentioned above, take the comments on here with a grain of salt (and take a joke for a joke). thanks for your hard work

    ReplyDelete
  69. If we should not lump all physicians into one bucket as being greedy and unethical then please do not lump all sales professionals into one low class bucket. There are good and bad apples in both batches, the bad ones just stink more, or in this case are louder than the rest.

    ReplyDelete
  70. 6:47, This is the NFL? This is Dawinism? What the hell are you talking about?

    ReplyDelete
  71. Any word out of the OIG on surgeon PODs? I thought they were supposed to respond to the senate by 8/12.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Senate is out on Recess so nobody is home to read the mail yet. Stay tuned but the OIG has been very clear in the past so we don't expect them to change their position yet. They feel that there are already sufficient rules and statutes to protect against activity that steals from the system. They are lying in wait. Like the story of the Old Bull and the Young Bull staring down on the heard of cows... They feel they can just walk down when they are ready and take them all.

    If you read all of the OIG responses, they all strongly caution against activity which may run afoul, but refrain from ever openly stating that PODs are legal. Better make your money and run Steinmann, Et al.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Sorry to be a grammar nazi 9:46, but "prolly" is NOT a word. You are not simply misspelling a word here or there, but you are using a word you sounded out and made up. I can't believe no one else has called you out on that.

    ReplyDelete
  74. 10:31, you're a nazi and behind the times. No one has called 9:46 out because he or she is using a widely used shortened version
    of probably. We see it all the time in text and on bloggs. I'm not saying it's right or correct it just "is" Have a great day.....Nazi

    ReplyDelete
  75. sounds like 10:31 needs to either get a life or laid! Spending time on a blog trying to correct someones misspellings is just sad and kinda strange.

    Oh and hey 10:31 Nazi should be in caps! Dahhhh

    ReplyDelete
  76. My new favorite scam s NuVasive's nuero monitoring. I was in a case and the surgeons wife was on the other end doing the read....really? Another surgeon told me someone in his office did all the reads and they make $400/case. In the meantime NuVasive is billing the hospital 3 times what a real monitoring company charges. I would like to hear others comments as this seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Why wouldn't the surgeons use a service with a live neurologist on the other end? These surgeons are also part of Phygen so maybe the "Huge" savings on implants makes up for the increased monitoring costs.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Phygen is a GIANT pod..... So

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  78. I heard phygen was suing DJ Janice/Spine 360 for patient infringement. Apparently he ripped of their pedical screw. No surprise there

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  79. Who is Apollo Spine?

    ReplyDelete
  80. Time for a new thread. Think this one's a little worn out.

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  81. I wonder if DJ is paying surgeons royalties on that screw?

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  82. Time for a new thread. Think this one's a little worn out.

    +1

    ReplyDelete
  83. Is United Spine and their "customers" under investigation ?

    ReplyDelete
  84. TSB,

    First I would like to thank you for your blog. It provides insight, timely news, witty lyrics, and even comic-relief!

    I hate to contribute to the relentless topic of PODs, but my curioisity is reaching crescendo, while my patience is waning. I have the actual letters to OIG and CMS from the Finance Committee. The Senate Finance Committee has requested CMS and OIG to address concerns regarding PODs (Physician Owned Distributorships). Senate Finance Committee has requested a response from CMS by July 15th and OIG by Aug 12th. Yet, I see no reports of a response. Yes, Congress is in Recess for the month of August, but that doesn't explain the (hypothetical) deadline for CMS.

    Enquiring minds want to know...

    Perhaps we will have news in time for your next blog???

    ReplyDelete
  85. @8:41AM

    How is it NuVasive's fault that your surgeon's wife is reading his neuromonitoring reports and billing $400/case? NuVasive allows its surgeons to choose who they want to read their remote-monitoring reports. The onus is on them to choose someone who is qualified to perform such readings. NuVasive cannot police these activities, and should not be expected to do so. Surgeons are competent professionals capable of making honest and ethical decisions. If they choose to cheat the system and are caught, they will be forced to face the consequences.

    Additionally, you are mistaken--or just plain lying--about the difference in cost between NuVasive and its less sophisticated neuromonitoring competitors. NuVasive charges the hospital less than $1k/case for disposables, and that is it. There aren't any professional fees...no tech fees...no equipment-usage fees...no surprises.

    Your company, on the other hand, charges the hospital about $400/case for disposables, and then goes on to bill the patient directly for a whole mess of fees including but not limited to: professional fees, hourly tech fees, and equipment usage fees. You monitor SSEP, EMG, and MEP on every single case (with a separate professional fee charged for each) even if all three modalities aren't necessary or relevant to the procedure being performed. All total, your company ends-up billing between $5k and $10k per case. Once again, NuVasive only charges about $1k total. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Consolidation = Lower commissions for sales reps . The bigger the company the lower the commissions. That's how it always was, is now, and always will be. Glad I jumped off of Synthes when I did. No win situation down the road. Globus Rocks!

    ReplyDelete
  87. 1:31 Right on!! The surgeon , if it is who I think it is, married a neuro monitoring tech, so she is qualified. Good for him to get her in the billing circle. How many surgeons wives work in their office and are on the payroll with a leased "BENZ"
    If Depuy can hire surgeons sons as salesmen then surgeons can hire their wives to remote monitor.
    Now that this blog has chugged full it is time for a new post.

    ReplyDelete
  88. please make another post!! I'm sick of reading about PODs, Globus and DJ Janice and Spine 180. How much more can be said about crooked organizations, a company that will NEVER go public and a guy in Austin Texas who pays docs and goes around ripping people off... It's all very old news.

    ReplyDelete
  89. 1:34

    Globus does ROCK !!!!

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  90. Globus does SUCK !!!!

    There... Fixed it for you...

    ReplyDelete
  91. Too bad, POD-haters. August 12th has come and gone. No ruling, no letter, no nothing. In politics, a non-response is itself a message. The OIG was given the time, opportunity and motive to respond and they chose not too.

    It wouldn't be a stretch to say the non-response is a tacit approval of PODs (or at least an admission that they aren't concerned enough to do anything at this time). Happy distributing!

    ReplyDelete
  92. 5:45 since you feel PODs are in the clear how about you let us know what POD you are a part of and the products you sell? I am guessing there will be no response as you truly don't believe a word of what you wrote.

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  93. boring!! you all are nonprofessional punks! Why not talk about what new tech is on the radar, who do we work with surgeons to improve patient outcomes? Instead you try and whip out your dicks to see who's is bigger and yet most of you are still wet behind the ears and could'nt sell if your lives depended on it. You talk abour NuVu, POD's, Globus...who cares except for thise out to "get their own" and most of you don't even deserve it!!

    ReplyDelete
  94. Stryker to buy Globus?

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  95. Agreed, 629. "Anonymous said...", 617. Why don't you take off your mask- oh yeah, I don't care who you are or who 545 is. And you know what, 545 makes a good point. That said, it's on their radar. There may be some guidance down the road but, I don't care about PODs. As 131 puts it, the "surgeon is a competent professional" and blah blah blah. Sure it sucks losing business. How much business are you REALLY at risk to lose? Who do you surround yourself with?Why not bust your ass and grow your business? Is every surgeon going to form their own distributorship? This is a competitive industry! If it was easy... Everyone would be doing it! You are always at risk of losing your business to POD, wife, son/daughter, healthcare reform- u name it. "if it's not the arrow, it's the Indian"

    Waiting for an opinion is a [lazy and weak] option. Plan and adjust. This industry has endured magnets, ASC's, royalty agreements, consultancies, and greedy SOBs.

    Your opinion is your opinion; as mine is mine. I'm not asking you to agree. Just understand.

    After all, you're "prolly" a good guy/gal so... Good luck

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  96. @1:31 Nuvasive's cost for disposables at my local hospital with 50% discount = way more than $1,000.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Who is Apollo spine and are they worth checking out?

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  98. 1:31 Regarding your post & perspective of Nuvasive is charging is WAY out of line. The cost of the patient lead module is well over $1K alone; not factoring in the other accessories that they sell for XLIF cases, screw testing, etc. Not sure what geography you're in, but hospitals continually balk at the cost of NV disposables as they are significantly more than the cost of any other monitoring modality on the market.

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  99. Stryker about to be taken out. 3 different groups looking at them. 2 private equity and one conglomerate. Think about it, their current market cap is less than Synthes going to JNJ by 4 billion. Market consolidation happening quickly.

    ReplyDelete
  100. 7:28 AM

    Can you fill in the details?

    "Think about it, their current market cap is less than Synthes going to JNJ by 4 billion." Is that a compelling reason to buy?

    How is private equity a sign of 'market consolidation'?

    EV/EBITDA for Synthes compared to peer and industry seem to indicate they were overvalued, not that Stryker is a steal.

    http://www.infinancialsanalytics.com/en/market%20valuation,Synthes,30087ES.html

    I'm not in M&A so I'm interested in understanding your assessment past "Blue Horsehoe loves Stryker".

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  101. The line, "Blue Horse Shoe Loves Anacot Steel," was the code that Gordon Gekko (Michael Douglas) had Bud Fox(Charlie Sheen) use for insider trading in the film "Wall Street" (1987).

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  102. whats going on with Zimmer Spine? Does anyone know who they are looking to purchase? Heard some rumors that they were looking to make a HUGE purchase.

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  103. Destroy then rebuild. A new era! Technology will streamline everything and create the transparency the FDA has been yearning for. Inefficient operations will be the tombstone of all failed organizations.

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  104. How much lower can you go NuVa!!! I love it. Stock is finally getting to an accurate reflection of this sinking ship. Ouch Alex, Keith, and Pat!! This must hurt. Gushing purple, someone stop the bleeding!

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  105. I heard Zimmer has been in Austin all week looking at a spine Co.

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  106. I think there are only 3 spine companies in Austin
    LDR, Spine 360 and Spinal Elements???

    ReplyDelete
  107. 12:40

    Seriously, great comment. The only problem is that the Big 3 that you cite have already made their millions. It's the remaining drove of "shareowners" who are being fleeced; especially those who have purchased shares via the company ESPP program. Just one big loss after another for the big purple Cheetahs.

    And to think, they are still litigating multiple lawsuits which they could lose,,, what's next, single digits?

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  108. 11:10 You are an a**

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  109. 2:04pm, Zimmer Spine has a corporate office in Austin. You sound like a fool.

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  110. Oh didn't know they moved from Warsaw....dick head

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  111. Zimmer Biologics is in Austin…not spine

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  112. 10:00am and 12:01 Phygen suit thrown out over a year ago. What current information do you know or just old info.

    TSB great post.

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  113. ZS does have an office in Austin, the old Abbott Spine office, as well as their office in Minneapolis. Makes a lot of sense doesn't it.

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  114. TSB, any word on the situation with POD's and the OIG?

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  115. Phygen lawsuit aginst DJ/ spine 360 wasn't "thrown out" The courts placed the case on a stay while the USPTO reviews phygens patents that DJ Janice "allegedly" copied.

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  116. 4:54 AM? Late night DJ?

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  117. Any reps out there who can comment on managing inventory in the field?

    We are thinking of implementing a new system and any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.

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  118. Spine 360 hot after distributors willing to flip their business...are they worth talking too??

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  119. 4:26 from Aug 18th...whats the deal calling me an ass? Who are you fool???

    ReplyDelete
  120. Zimmer Spine has offices in Austin, Minneapolis (Head Office), New Jersey and Bordeaux (France). They recently closed down office in Winterthur. Zimmer Biologics is in Austin as well. Hope this helps :)

    However, I doubt...they are looking to buy something in Spine. That will be another disaster!

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  121. Zimmer Spine will no doubt make a huge purchase here in the next few months. This one will be done right not like the Endius or Abott Spine one. Look out top 3!!!

    ReplyDelete
  122. Which manufacturer has the best inventory management system out there? What is it called?

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  123. 12:46pm

    You fool! It requires money to acquire something...which Zimmer Spine on its own does not have. Did you see the results of last 7-8 quarters? All going to south...just shows how incompetent and immature that management is!

    Even after such stellar performance, if the DD in Warsaw is going to release some cash for Spine acquisition...I'd be shocked at his ineptness and (lack of) vision!!!

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  124. There are over 10 spine companies based in Austin. Only one's I have actually seen are: LDR, Pioneer, 360, ZS, Spinal Elements, Eminent Spine

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  125. Spinal Elements is next door to Alphatec in Carlsbad California.

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  126. 3:12 GOT YOUR FOOL HANGING BRO! I know first hand they will be making this purchase. Zimmer Holdings is cash primed and ready. Your lack of industry understanding makes me laugh. You are either a washed up, fired ex ZS rep/agent or DD kicked your ass out of the recon business cause your lack of vision!

    ReplyDelete
  127. SpineSmith is in Austin.

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  128. SpineSmith isnt a real spine company. It's a giant POD like spine 360

    4:00 are you fresh off the used car lot? You seem to have some lack of education thing about you. Very un-spine professional like. Maybe you should read several prior months post so you can model your post to be more like that of a spine professional or continue groveling like an 8th grade idiot.

    TSB MM are you dead and gone or have you just completely forgotten about your beloved blog?

    ReplyDelete
  129. Spine 360 stole Carter Burton from SpineSmith to take all their business. He hasn't been successful at all though. What a stupid name SpineSmith!!

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  130. Medtronic is dying and the rats are jumping ship.
    Wait till the quarterly announcement on how poorly spine did and how they position it.
    TSB should be very happy!

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  131. I think TSB finally came to his mind and realized you all are a bunch of unprofessional fools that complain and are more worried about NuVu, PODs or Glo..bust! Think his new blog is now "am I smarter than a spine rep"

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  132. 8/19 4PM,

    First Spine job I take it? Zimmer Spine only hires the best! Good luck with that new cervical plate. I know the entire world is just waiting for those 15 sets to launch.

    Zimmer Corporate (Warsaw) has been spinning the "we're flush with cash", "we throw off $250M in cash flow a quarter" and "we didn't get in Spine to be 8th" BS line for 8 years.

    Hopefully you have a direct position and not with one of their dead-end dirtbag distrbutors. Good luck!

    one more thing ... nobody is buying Zimmer Spine. It's just too easy taking their business. Don't believe me? 10 quarters in a row of negative sales growth is not enough proof? No amount of MDT and Stryker castoffs can pull that anchor off the bottom of the sea. Dvorak will continue to spin tales and his overpaid AVPs will continue to lie to the field. Fact is nobody wants to buy Zimmer Holdings and their "#1 pure play ortho" position will be gone in a few years.

    ReplyDelete
  133. spinesmith, celling technologies, vcd medical, orthopedic sales and service,they are all the same depending on what big Kevin Dunworth wants to spin. It won't be long before he is promoting Rick Perry as his miracle boy with his adipose/stem cell injections. Spine smith sells integra and some bogus implants their "investors" designed. In fact Kevin looks a lot like Rick Perry without the revivals

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  134. again 7:09 you beggingin to sound more and more like one of those ex "dirtbag distributors" you spoke of. While I dont know any personaly as I ahve a lot of respect for most of my fellow spine reps out there in the field. You my friend, and I use that term with tongue in check, lack the integrity to whip my ass.
    Let me ask you this...how did it feel to be handed your walking papers from ZS?
    And one more thing dickweed...did I ever say ZS was for sales? I said they were going to be purchasing someone huge. Watch it lil man as you might be working really soon for one of those overpaid AVP's...but you do have one thing right, ZHoldings is #1! How about those apples.

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  135. 741- hilarious!!!

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  136. This is 8/19 3:12pm to 8/19 4:00pm:

    Buddy...chill out! Your post seems to based on lot of arrogance, lack of knowledge and experience...if you sold few implants (that you probably did not contribute at all) or if you are those countless AVPs...that does not mean you are expert of spine industry. I'm still happily employed in this Spine industry for more than 12 years...and, unlike you...I work in R&D and have developed/seen more technologies...than you can ever imagine! So...just step back and retreat in your "cozy" hole!

    I know most of the management team at ZS...and, if you know your business and check with your knowledgeable friends in the industry...you will know what direction ZS is going to! If you are ZS employee/sales rep/AVP...then, good luck in buying the BS of the management. They certainly don't have any clue...and, yes...don't assume only sales/mktg people "know the stuff"...you will be sadly mistaken!

    You claim to know firsthand that ZS will be making a purchase...if you are part of the deal, then you and your team should better go and check your sanity. They don't know how to acquire and integrate a single product...forget entire company. Unless you have good infrastructure and people, you can only go to certain extent...let's face the fact that ZS will always be running behind of top 4-5 companies in the Spine to catch up!!! Unless they gobble up MDT...which has a fat chance of 0.00001%!!! RIP.

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  137. 6:56, if you represent the intellect of R&D personnel across our industry, we are in deep trouble. Can we start over with an entirely new blog? You can screen membership based on industry experience/qualifications,and a basic IQ test...maybe the Wunderlich test...something to weed out the illiterate. I am not quite sure how we can weed out the immature, though, since some of them are probably pretty bright (born into privilege, and are just behaving like the spoiled brats they are,) and have decent industry experience.

    Until TSB brings a new forum, let's make this interesting...let's start naming the filthy, dirty reps out there. I will start: Carl Webb.

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  138. If you're gonna bash someone. Which I advise you to not. Get the name right!

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  139. 8:15 great post BRO!! 6:56 "claims" he's been in the spine field for over 12 years in R&D. Are you f-ing kidding me man? R&D? Until you get out and carry a bag and deal with the scum we have to deal with....shut your piehole! I have been in spine SALES for 13 years, since 1998 started with Depuy Acromed and then Depuy Spine all in sales, Mr. 6:56 R&D. I agree with calling punk ass bitches like you out and all the other wannabe reps that call themselves professionals in this biz. Like all the Styker reps in N. Cal!
    I think TSB has fallen asleep at the wheel listening to all these cry babies asking when Globus will go public or NuVu lack of biz knowledge from any of their reps/management. Or some R&D guy with 12 years of spine/implant knowledge spouting off how much his idea of how to stop a set screw from stripping out has helped or saved the industry. Dude I would recommend you not post here any longer as you made me piss my pants.

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  140. What's hapening at Life Spine? Clandestine meetings with surgeons, cutting long term distributors, trying to get case coverage for 8 Pts? I used to think all the rumors that I heard about Mike Butler, et al, were just that. What a real sanke in the grass....All the corporate people are jumping ship.....Classic case of desperation.

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  141. Dude who would work for that screw ball faggot anyway??? What man of self respect would engage Butler as a leader or boss. I've seen him at shows and he has a sinse of self importance like he's the magical spine wizard. Give me a break you goofball!!! Get some shoes that match you suit too for GOD sakes!!!! Joke Joke Joke!!!!

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  142. 10:54 thats funny shit! Sounds like the Russ Wright who used to be the spine manager for Spine Tech/ZS in California. What a joke he is...he was still wearing ties from his high school days and the soles on that dudes shoes...wow!!

    ReplyDelete
  143. 10:54, Wish I could argue with you....I particularly "like" the grey pinstripe
    Guido Suit he must have bought at Mens Warehouse. He is a clown, and all his entourage included....Can't understand why they have a "VP of Strategic Planning". Probably to show them how to close their doors...

    ReplyDelete
  144. (Translation) of an age old adage for those who still have some senses left:)

    "Humbleness is the key for survival/staying afloat; Arrogance is the key for self-destruction/drowning off."

    Life is Good!

    ReplyDelete
  145. remember this date... Dec 22, 2012.

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  146. 8:15

    Forget about whether the earlier poster represents the intellect of R&D. If you are representative of sales personnel in this industry...(wo)man...just think about it the future...looks like a "bright dark"!

    10:01
    If you call your work, routine and customers as a "scum", then you probably should get the hell out of this industry. If you do not pride upon what you do...then, why are you here? I'm quite sure there plenty of people in this industry who take extreme pride in what they do.

    What's the use of whatever money you earn...if you don't like your daily work & profession?

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  147. 815 I do it cause I make a phate bank roll bro. Probably 3x what ur R&D ass is making. Who says I have to or need to enjoy whom I work with as long as i am happy and my family is taken care of. No I don't need to brag like you did about all the "products" you have made or been " a part of". But hey my man we can go there. You want to challenge my knowledge and background in this biz? Dude you I wouldnt let you 25ft near a case of mine much less have you in the room bragging about the universal screw removal addition you are going to custom make my surgeon. Man I would have been more impressed had you told me ypu were in Marketing or Education but f-ING R&D? Isn't that where they demote the Product Managers that they feel sorry for cause they have been "around since the begging".

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  148. TSB, I suggest you remove this blog site as it only portrays a negative image on the entire industry. You've had some good topics, but as of late they all resort to name calling, money, and a lack of understanding. Thanks for the good intentions but enough is enough.

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  149. This entire blog post has went to hell in a handbag, embarrassing to say the least.

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  150. I have to agree. I never post here, only read for enjoyment and to find out what's happening in this industry. These guys/girls are some of the bad apples in this business (which every business has). Only wish they wouldn't make the rest of us look like doushbags with the way they act. Grow up!

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  151. 11:24,

    What a pile of crap you are! Russ Wright is a stand-up guy. Zimmer Spine lost millions when they kicked Zimmer Cook to the curb for Dan Kirkpatrick's crap former Abbott Spine distribution. Dan Kirkpatrick term as VP of Sales destroyed a vast majority of Zimmer Spine. His partner in crime ... Mike Watts is gone.

    Russ is a good guy. You are a coward.

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  152. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  153. Zimmer Spine needs their own blog. Seriously, I've never seen so much attention paid to a sub $150M USA sales organization. I guess it helps current Zimmer Spine folks feel relevant? Fact is, they are the bastard child of a fairly well run organization. Zimmer Spine has too many offices and f'd up IP (Endius, Abbott, Implex, and smaller licenses) to be worth anything to another organization. It's laughable to hear all of the layers of management they continue to add for 3+ years of declining sales.

    That's right Zimmer Spine devotees with blue kool-aid stained around your mouth ... keep believing the "big purchase" is coming ... that this President (and not the previous 6 in the last 8 years) will get it right ... nooooo Dvorak isn't kidding this time! ... you're bag will get better! ... your distributor really cares about you (reality = they are praying to get bought out)

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  154. The one and only reason to read this blog is to make sure your name isn't mentioned in it.

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  155. Yeah, take the blog down.

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  156. yea take it down...what a JOKE this has been.

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  157. "815 I do it cause I make a phate bank roll bro. Probably 3x what ur R&D ass is making."

    Yessir 1:29, happily representing the fraternity of spine salesmen. Mortgage salesmen had a good run also. 90% of them are back in the trailer park now. You'll be there soon, start looking for a double-wide away from the septic tanks. Or not, whichever you prefer.

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  158. Reflecting on all the posts for the last year....
    Let's look at the device industry as a whole. From somebody who has been selling devices since 1989, I've seen urologists invest in eswl units for their patients (trailers) and surgery centers; Plastic surgeons, along with eye surgeons, general orthopaedics, etc. own surgery centers or are investors. GYN's are doing procedures in the office that they used to do in the OR. Surgeons are getting squeezed each year, we all know why- by reimbursements, insurance and liability. It's sad when there are more "smart" (ha) wanting to go into law vs. becoming a dr.

    What about spine docs? Their personality is already aggressive because of the anatomy they are dealing with, we all know that. No spine surgeon wants to admit, but they have the coldest rooms I have been in because of the pressure they are in in a case. Between cases, they sit in the lounge hearing their compadres discuss all the above. Do they really have any options in the surgical treatment of their patients like other specialties do? No. Unfortunately, some of them have gotten sucked into the unethical side of this business.

    So, as with anything, you have the sleazebags and the honest guy, the good surgeons and the bad. Life is a game, and we all just want to feel like we are surviving. As we all outlive our parents by 20 years and have to get tweaked, when you are in the OR, think about who you want cutting you and whether it really matters whose screws are used.
    In the end, we all get screwed, it just depends on when......

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  159. The wonderful world of the “rock-star” medical device sales rep is in danger of becoming extinct. For those of you still knee-deep in the industry and in a current state of denial, please bear with me as I share with you your demise. Some of you are probably waiting around for the next “hot thing” or that start-up paying big $ and promising you that they are going IPO. In the interim, you are at your third company in the last five years walking a round like a zombie from hospital to hospital because you know that this ship is taking water too. You have either just left another National Sales Meeting (NSM) or are headed to one and know full well that it will be a waste of 3-4 days of your life because you are totally disengaged. I bet you are real excited to hear another round of marketing presentations by some folks that have little clue as to what actually happens in the real world. I forgot about the drink tickets that they now give out too to avoid any mishaps like last years disaster at (NSM). Wake up call !! Lets focus a minute on your current reality.
    Hospitals do not want your kind in their facilities anymore. You are probably wondering what “your kind” is but you know that sales rep who walks around the hospital like they actually work there. The kind of sales rep who actually starts to believe that they are as critical to the success of their surgeons’ cases as the actual surgeon. That sales rep who wears scrubs to and from the hospital and down deep starts to believe that they actually add value in the operating room by merely standing in the back of the room. The sales rep who feels the need to share their knowledge with the rest of the sales force as to what it takes to make it happen on a consistent basis without even being asked. Really? You know that sales rep that is paraded around like a show horse because they have figured out the secret sauce (according to sales management) to making their # quarter after quarter, year after year etc.,. Come on everyone; just do it like him! Do you happen to work with anyone who fits this description? I bet you do. The truth hurts sometimes but sunshine is often the best disinfectant. Your world has changed and you just don’t see it. In some ways, you are not that much different from a vampire who hides in a coffin to avoid the realities of the world.
    Most hospitals now understand that the quickest way to control cost is to limit your availability to their physicians. Now what? The thought of spending time in offices is beyond comprehension. I mean seriously, I am a medical device sales rep. The days of hanging around Operating Room (OR) lounges, walking from room to room, scrub sink cold calls and literally camping out all day in an (OR) are long gone. Instead, you have now have RepTrax, Vendormate, Vendor Clear and a host of other monitoring systems to keep an eye on you every time you arrive and depart their facility. Ouch! Awfully, difficult to cold call on the new surgeon who is busy and using the competitive product, isn’t it? This coupled with pricing pressures, competition, commoditization, compliance etc…. it certainly is not like the good ole days.
    I know that sounds harsh but if you really think about it for a few minutes, you know that I may be on to something. Now what? You can certainly hop from company to company hoping that one of them will be a home run if their stock price goes through the roof. I am not sure that is a viable strategy but HOPE can certainly cloud ones judgment. Do yourself a favor and buckle your seat belts because your ride is going to be a bumpy one unless you change. What’s next? Stay tuned!

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