Tuesday, September 6, 2011

Ali v. Wepner, Bring Back the Old Days

This isn't the Fight of the Century, neither would one consider it the Rumble in the Jungle, one wouldn't even classify it as the Thrilla in Manilla.  This lawsuit is a heavyweight going after a middle weight in a sanctioned bout reserved for a San Diego federal jury.  The heavyweight is Medtronic and the middle weight is NuVasive .  Could this be a Muhammed Ali/Chuck Wepner bout?   The Bear is originally from NJ even though TSB highly doubts that he had Bayonne roots.  

Warsaw Orthopedics, Inc., a unit of Medtronic has accused LaJolla based NuVasive of infringing three patents for implants that are capable of being inserted translaterally, a plate and screw system that can be used to stabilize vertebrae, I believe the attorneys meant "fuse" in the cervical spine,  and a tissue retractor.  Medtronic's attorney orated in his opening statement to the jury, that Medtronic's damages are substantial and that a financial expert will present one option for calculating lost profits at $200 million (ouch), and another that is estimated much higher.  NuVasive on the other hand, contends that Medtronic infringed on its patent for a nerve monitoring system for lateral surgery. NuVa's attorney is quite eloquent in his defense of NuVa when he told the jury, "Nuvasive didn't copy nothin'."

It will be interesting to see how this bout develops, could a local jury affect the final outcome with some home cooking?  Boxing fans know that scoring points is quite subjective with jabs and body shots, unless one delivers a knockout punch, or a lethal kidney punch.  But what happens to NuVa if they lose this fight?  And, how many more fights can they lose before the can't get off the mat?  TSB wants to know whether our readers are rooting for the boys in the Blue Trunks, or the Purple Tights?  TSB is taking even odds that the judges will score a homegrown decision, gotta love our industry, Rome burns while the attorneys make all the money.  No wonder we can't get anything done.  You know what they say, "sooner or later love is gonna getcha, TSB wants to know what our readers think?

112 comments:

  1. Two sinking ships.

    Screw them both.

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  2. Nuva will settle with mdt. No choice

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  3. Big company goes after small company with no leg to stand on. We've seen this story play out before. MSD is trying to create a diversion b/c they are getting their asses handed to them. NUVA wins. Settlement will be pissing in the wind for MSD. Move on.

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  4. One word: plastics

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  5. Unreal how many lawsuits take place in this industry. Might not be a bad idea for these companies to drop the lawsuits and move on to new product development.

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  6. "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"

    -A Few Good Men

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  7. ha! 610, nothing wrong with a graduate quote every now and then. well played.

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  8. I remember when MDT got tangled in a lawsuit with Kyphon. A few months and 4B later, we witnessed what turned about to be a very bold and very stupid acquisition. I wonder if this lawsuit is a dog and pony show and MDT has bigger plans, maybe not so foolish this time...

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  9. Michelson sued Medtronic, Medtronic sued Michelson, they ended up giving him a billion dollars. They don't seem to do too well in court. My money's on the hometown boys, NuVa.

    Love is gonna getcha? Wha?

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  10. Who cares? Let them beat each other up. Two morally and ethically challenged organizations on a path of mutually assured decline.... Only interesting to those who also tune in to ultimate fighting bouts.

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  11. UFC rules....Fastest growing sport....clearly reflects on your knowledge of the industry..

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  12. Next Blog.

    There is very little interest in either of these two losers.

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  13. NuVa will win. This is merely a case of a big brother (MDT) who is scared and jealous of his younger, faster, smarter cousin (NUVA). Brother had been the talk of the town for years, got all the pretty girls, life was good. Now Cuz has grown up, has more skills, is better looking, and pulls all the wool. Big brother aint happy. So he puffs his chest and bullys little cuz. And now we have a lawsuit.

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  14. Ali v Wepner - fought in the greatest city in America (Cleveland, OH) - thanks to that superb humanitarian and promoter Don King.

    Ali got 1.5 for the fight however I think the real winners in the MDT v NV fight will be the lawyers - as usual.

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  15. Globus... Public....

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  16. TSB,, 2 posts in 2 days,, YOU ARE BACK!! lol

    Seriously, this isn't as much about the business side of patents, products, IP, or the like, as it is a personal battle. It's between the higher ups at MDT & the trio of Lukianov, Miles, & Valentine. It's been this way for years & this is just another chapter in that saga.

    Really, who cares who wins or loses in this scenario? Although, If Nuvaive does come out on he losing side of things & is required to pay damages, how does will that futher impact their stock price?

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  17. Globus, never public. Too many skeletons in the closet.

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  18. NUVA wins handedly.

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  19. Just curious, have any of you predicting the outcome actually reviewed the patents and products in question?

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  20. Speaking of lawsuits. What is going on with Zimmer and Stryker?

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  21. what's NUVA got to lose vs MDT? not like big brother has a good track record in court. all that IP and no one to enforce it. MDT either backs off or won't ante up the sac for a fight...so they pay instead. some strategy!

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  22. 8:33
    No one is left at Medtronic that would care about Lukianov, Valentine or Miles. Sad thing is that all three of them probably think they were relevant at Danek. Egos as bloated as Lukianov's cheeks.

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  23. Here's the first patent. There's like 10 or 12 in the lawsuit, so plenty more where this comes from.

    http://www.google.com/patents?id=gGcpAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

    1. A translateral spinal implant for insertion from the lateral aspect of the spine in the disc space between two adjacent vertebrae, said implant having a length that is greater than one half the transverse width of the vertebrae, said length being substantially greater than the depth of the 25 vertebrae, and a height for contacting each of the two adjacent vertebrae.

    It basically says "Bye bye XLIF cage". Next up...ATEC and Globus (what will their ticker be after they go public?)...

    This one will be hard for the bear to dance out of. Guessing it's either off the market, or they'll find a willful infringement...this is kind of like picking "Neurovision" for a product name when you knew it was a neural monitoring company's name and trademark already, except that the damages will be much greater than $60m.

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  24. Everything NUVA makes is a patent infringment. Fact remains they have lost any competitive edge and have nothing new to offer. This will effect the stock price globally (+/- $15). Locally, ask your O.R. Director if they approve of the NUVA rep crawling under the patient drape to replace the lead that has fallen off. Follow up that meeting with the xlif surgeon and inquire how they justify taking on the additional liability of "surgeon driven" neuromonitoring. Should be enough to convert to DLIF, GLIF or any other lateral.

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  25. so 2:19are you trying to convert a latetal surgeon back to plif?

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  26. Zimmer and Stryker are in a pissing contest over Paul Graveline, the Spine President heir apparent. Unless there is something else I don't know about.

    Much sound and fury, signifying nothing, except perhaps the ability of overpaid executives to act like retarded and spoiled children believing in middle-aged guys on white horses riding (either towards them (ZS) or away (Stryker)) to save them from their own stupidity.

    Personally I think the problems at ZS are endemic and go to the highest levels at Zimmer Holdings and Graveline will accomplish little or nothing. Which is to say that management is composed of idiots, in other news, water is wet.

    OTOH Holdings has made a series of stupid purchases ostensibly to help out Spine; even a blind squirrel gets a nut once in awhile. They're about due a nut, and for those who say they're done buying stuff, last I looked they were sitting on a pile of cash down there in Warsaw.

    I've got a bridge for sale, anyone have Dvorak's phone number?

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  27. Stryker and Zimmer Spine Groups in a lawsuit? Reminds me of when Will Ferrell fought John c Reiley in Step Brothers. Real gangsta.

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  28. Lawyers blathering about IP is in the "not selling department". Zero effect on day-to-day spine sales. Although it's kind of fun watching the old, tired Medtronic has-been throwing wild punches with both eyes swollen shut.

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  29. Wow, after 10 or so days with the same blog on DTRAX, TSoB is back at the same old topics of Nuvasive and Medtronic. Give us a freaking break, will you? Change the damn subject to something more interesting.

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  30. 4:28 Such as?

    What else is there to discuss in this tired, worn down, "ridden hard & put away wet" industry right now?

    It sure is fun reading/ watching everyone pick on these 2 companies!

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  31. I love the NUVA pride...but where the #@$! are they getting business outside of XLIF. Serious! Explain it to me? Its like the 300 pound chick thinking she is hot because she has nice eyes. It doesn't make sense.

    Oh well...F' em both

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  32. Who doesn't love a fat chick?

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  33. If MDT were to lose & depending on the amount of the damages, coupled w/ NUVA's current stock price, MDT might just buy them to eliminate them from the fight all together.

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  34. In the wild sometimes the predator will wound the prey and let it stumble around for a while before it eats it. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here.

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  35. stryker is waiting for globus to accept their offer

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  36. Zimmer culture wont allow for sucess! The head of the monster does not get spine! I am globus and we will continue to take market share!!!!! Going public boys and girls!

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  37. "You're missing a very interesting effect here."

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  38. Nuva is the more over-rated and over-valued company out there. I hope MDT knocks them down another rung. Nothing new or unique has come from them since their initial release of the XLIF system.

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  39. "Britain has one of the lowest cancer survival rates in Europe, and experts say late diagnosis is to blame" Britain rations cancer scans. See the future of Obamacare today at:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2034914/GPs-told-ration-cancer-scans-bureaucratic-directive.html

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  40. Stryker corporate will snuff out the nimbleness of Gobust, SYK leadership doesn't get spine, ie a 32 year old president of spine. Corporate cultures are Polar opposites. It will be a slo-mo train wreck, reps already interviewing. It was fun while it lasted.

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  41. I think most of these posts are from Spine Marketing within companies. My advice, marketing needs to spend more time getting products approved. Not posting on blogs.....

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  42. Blue horseshoe loves fat chick

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  43. This is your wake up call pal!!

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  44. had a surgeon in my area that I am very tight with try the Globust "XLIF device" yesterday and the case was a complete dissaster. Rep didnt know his head from his ass and the tech came out of the room pissed that the rep tried to blame shit on him. This is one, of many reasons why GloBUST will never go public boys and girls!
    7:12pm get your head out of the sand. GloBUST is so dissfunct that they couldn't read a ticker tape even if they went public.
    GO BIG BLUE!!!!

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  45. Hmmmm.

    Thats too bad as I am droppin Loads all over NuVa in my region.
    Eff NuVa and Big-n-Slo Blue.

    Globus Rules !

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  46. www.jigsaw.com/id461164/1/x_spine_systems_inc_company_directory.xhtml

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  47. I hear all of the talk that NuVasive hasnt come out with anything innovative since XLIF....

    What has any hardware company come out with in the past 5 years that is truly innovative? HA screws..spinous process fixation..give me a break.

    We all like to pick on NuVa and Medtronic, but lets come back to reality here.

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  48. Do you mean to tell me that the extra 3 degrees of angulation on the new cervical plate isn't a gamechanger? You gotta be kidding me!

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  49. There has been a whole lot of talk on here as of late predicting Stryker to buy Globus in the near future. Do anybody have any info to provide validity to this claim? Could this be the next purchase in our time of consolidation?

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  50. ITS A DONE DEAL. Can you say powerhouse?

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  51. There's a difference between COMPLETED and DONE.
    Abbot was acquired when the deal was completed. Shortly after that, they were DONE.

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  52. If this is true why has no announent been made? Anybody?

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  53. Probably because you answered your own question.

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  54. Stryker as is: $400 million + Orthovita: $600 million + potentially Globus: $800 million + .... watch out now. Powerhouse. By 2012 the Spine world will be controlled by MDT, SYK, NUVA and JNJ. Market consolidation at its best.

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  55. Learn from history:
    Stryker as is : $400 million, + Orthovita : $450 million, + potentially Globus: $350 million due to DOJ legal fines and patent infringement lawsuits.

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  56. Apparently many of you read and post on TSB while under the influence of crack. Here are some important facts you should know:

    A crack high lasts about as long as a cocaine high does (since crack is just a diluted, easier-to-smoke form of cocaine). Which is not very long. The effects of one line of cocaine, or one hit of crack, last about 20 to 30 minutes, and then you have to take another line, or another hit, to keep the high going. When you finally stop taking lines or hits, you'll start coming down (the feeling of euphoria will start wearing off) in about 20 to 30 minutes.

    You'll still be able to feel the effects of the crack or cocaine -- you'll feel wired and jittery -- for about 18 to 24 hours, but you won't be high. You'll be coming down, which is the opposite of getting high. Basically, however great you felt when you were high, you will feel correspondingly horrible when you're coming down. The higher you get, the worse the comedown is when you stop.

    Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Crack_high_how_long_does_it_last#ixzz1XQP0QAon

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  57. Funny,, As Nuvasive & MDT are duking it out, K2M is very quietly putting together a very, very solid lateral platform. Will be interesting to see what happens after the court battle wraps as K2M will be the next company to significantly dent NUVA's lateral business. Heck, almost their whole design/ faculty team were trained by Nuvasive. Several are even lateral TDR study sites. That must sting a little in La Jolla,,

    I guess not everyone drinks the purple kool aid.

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  58. What part of "Warsaw Orthopedics patents" are so hard to understand?

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  59. Pioneer's lateral platform is hands down the best in the market. I say this and I don't even work with them...

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  60. does anyone know what, exactly, Peyton Manning had done? C6-C7 anterior fusion? Can he really play in the NFL again?

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  61. If he wants to risk paralysis. Why didn't he have a Prestige Disc replacement? Screwed in, solid, good to go. Good enough for Delta Force troops. Was his previous surgery/ies destabilizing foraminotomies?

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  62. 9:53

    As soon as a guy say's "I don't even work for them" we all know to call B.S. Go plug your shitty Pioneer anything to your P.O.D. Docs!

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  63. who was peyton's doc? anyone know? more importantly... what instrumentation was used? sure some lucky rep was in that room yesterday..

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  64. Globus and Stryker... Not happening!! Also a little food for thought for all you hoping for a buy out and consolodation. Let's review: Spine market = low single growth, procedures down, pricing way down, reimbursement down and Obama care on the way. What is so attractive about this market that the big company's are going to invest in it? please educate me. Ship has sailed on this market my friends. I think I saw an RIP blog last month. The list is going to grow

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  65. LDR is going public !

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  66. Rest easy Colt fans. Word on the street is Peyton got a STALIF put in. He really likes there BBQ sauce so he figured why not throw them a bone.

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  67. They should have put in the Log Splitter, Corpectomy maker, Revision Nightmare --- LDR

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  68. Well folks, I think the overwhelming sentiment on this one is that no one really cares what happens to either of these companies.

    Next blog please,,

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  69. Are the synthes reps really selling pharma now? Bwahaahaahaaaaa!

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  70. If you are reading this you have problems. I mean really, this is something like the 70th comment. You should go back to work or spend time enjoying your family.

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  71. Robotic surgery....the next big thing?

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  72. Fessler did manning's posterior foraminotomies. Not sure who did acdf.

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  73. Robert Watkins Jr. and Sr. in Marina Del Ray. Never seen a two-surgeon single-level acdf before.

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  74. He'd be playing by Week 3 if he'd gotten a Prestige....no bone incorporation needed

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  75. Synthes Pipeline--- Pink Slips

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  76. Anyone know Shoredaddy?

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  77. Was Manning's doc in a POD? Hmmmm

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  78. Synthes Reps and DePuy reps with business in their territories will be fine. J&J is purchasing products, manufacturing facilities, product development and field sales at a premium and cannot watch sales erode with employees leaving for the competition. If you bring something of value to the new J&J/Synthes party you will have an invitation.

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  79. Manning will be just fine. Many of players have had ACDF surgery (one that I was in the case at Stanford Medical Center) and have returned with no issues.

    Helped that he got the best plating system on the market...Trinica Select!

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  80. 2:41 How many glasses of Kool Aid did they force you to drink?

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  81. Prestige ?

    3000 surgeons trained and almost no one implanting them.
    MSD Shat the bed on reading the tea leaves regarding market penetration on this one.

    Giant failure.

    Bye Bye Big Blue

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  82. Agreed! Maybe the first salvo fired by the insurance payors who realized they could deny new technology and make more money, better treatment for patients be damned! Sad but true, a terrible waste and a trend solidly set.

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  83. Zimmer gets no play at Stanford you liar. Go away.

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  84. 11:19, did I ever say it was Zimmer shit head? Just cause ZS has Trinica now doesnt mean they had it first. The case was 8 years ago with Spine Tech. Look it up, and hey, I live close by and would just LOVE to show you the X-Rays! Go ahead, make my day little man! Any time, any place!

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  85. oh and another thing 11:19, case was done by Dr. Dan Kim (when he was there before all his legal troubles brought on my Depuy).

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  86. You will show me the x-rays any time, any place?

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  87. I wouldn't be bragging you have copies of a patients x-rays. Much less from which facility and performing surgeon. Not too bright.

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  88. I am bragging I have them dumb ass! What'cha going to do...turn me in? Let me ass you this, how many times have you or anyone else on this blog took a copy of any c-arm shot?

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  89. This is why our industry is going down the tubes!!! At one time it was a very professional medium! Now we have illiterate reps running around with patient xrays showing their friends...good job fellas!

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  90. 3:17 if your lame comments were towards me, I never said I had them and was running around showing them to my friends. Yes, I have a copy of these films from the case, and if you want to know why, just ask, dumb ass. I take offense to your comment about "illiterate reps". I have been in this biz since 1998 and have busted my ass the whole time. If you think this industry is going down the tubes I would suggest you start looking at yourself and maybe consider a career change yourself...
    Until then, I am going to keep doing what I have been doing...taking biz and making $$. God I love America!!

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  91. Glad you know I am a dumb ass, since you know me so well. I am sure people could care less that you have some high profile x-rays. Keep gloating about them because it shows the type of person you really are. I am sure Stanford is happy to hear you have them. And, NO I have never taken x-rays from c-arms, hard copies or the like. Why would I need to. You probably wear scrubs when you wake up and head off to work in hopes someone thinks your a Dr. as well. Keeping x-rays is so 1998.

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  92. I don't see any problem with taking x-rays for learning purposes, as long as the patient's name is taken off. What does it hurt?

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  93. thank you 7:18. The patients name is totally removed from the X-ray and the surgeon even agreed to let us have a copy since we using an inner body device for the acdf fusion that was new. There are many times that we as reps have taken these for exactly what you stated...learning purposes.
    So is it wrong when you take the pen from the OR and dont return it?

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  94. Wow ,11:24. You are a retard.

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  95. Oh, this just keeps getting funnier and funnier...

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  96. 8:00pm, takes one to know one!

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  97. I am sure you used the x-rays for educational purposes. Yeah, and you are not on a public blog bragging about it either. Along with your scrubs you put on in the morning you probably offer to carry your surgeons x-ray bag for him to try and look more like a physician. I am willing to bet you have worn scrubs on an airplane, trying to look like your important. Probably just coming back from a cadaver lab training session to learn about some new inner body device.

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  98. 11:17, while I never gone on an airplane in scrubs or offered to carry my surgeons x-ray bag I do wear scrubs and my name badge reads "Widow maker, money maker"!!! Read and weap little man.

    Since your on the attack and I have no idea what your talking about...tell me little man, how does it feel sucking fumes while driving that mini-van and covering a that single level acdf case this morning?? what else do you have planned today? Me, I'am off to the gym!

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  99. Oh, this now just keeps getting pathetic-er and pathetic-er....

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  100. Whoever thinks Globus is $800M has absolutely no clue about the marketplace. Stick to knowing your small territory and dont' try to comment on the industry in general

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  101. Thats not what the poster was saying:
    They were commenting that Stryker, with Orthovita AND Globus added, would be $800 million potentially.
    They were still smoking something.

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  102. This is a horrible and exposing forum. Do any of you go back and read your postings as a conversation? This is disgustingly unprofessional.

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  103. hey 10:41, don't like what is being said here??? Suggest you find another blog to read. This is a open blog and not just for professional reps but also head hunters, stock wannabes, and anyone else who stumbles on it.

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  104. I still want to see those x-rays gym guy is talking about. Meet me at Starbucks, biff.

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  105. "Widow maker, money maker", that is hilarious. 5'6 and steroid swollen is no way to go through life. 12:36pm on a Friday and your off to the gym. Really busy I see. No mini van here, and rarely do I see a single level ACDF unlike you. This was fun but I am out on this post. Keep killing, pumping iron in the middle of the day and making your money.

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  106. 1:38am...up a little late trying to balance your check book? And Starbucks? please homie, Starbucks is for lou's like you!

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  107. I wonder if this guy with the x-rays works for stryker?

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  108. Stryker? Please!! Give me a f**king break!

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  109. Well the good thing for NUVA is it wasn't $200million. Depending on the actual language in the verdict. It looks like NUVA stock price hits a bottom in the morning, and its a good thing they refinanced that debt.

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