Monday, July 2, 2012

Confusion? What Confusion? A Clarification of the Affordable Care Act

Based on the response our readers exhibited last week, TSB thought that there should be some clarification regarding OBAMACARE.  Before you start whining like a child it behooves those that criticize it to read all 300,000 plus words before it was amended to 900 plus pages.  So let's clarify some things.

Many people are screaming about the unconstitutionality of the law, especially about the mandate. The vast minority that scream against it wrap themselves in their cloak of freedom, claiming it will make you do things you don't want to do. Is it a penalty or tax, that my friends is left to your perception, but what we found out today is that Mitt Romney's spokesperson quoted the Governor as calling the Massachusetts Healthcare Law a penalty rather than a tax. I guess calling it a "penalty" is a kinder and gentler way. The difference? Semantics? Beauty is in the eye of whomever can BS the best, isn't it? As the general populous argues about the law, there are many things that people are claiming that the bill does, that is not true. At least get your facts straight. Are you allowed to have an opinion? Absolutely?  But you're not allowed to make up your own facts, and that's what the sheep have been fed.

Death Panels:  To our knowledge, there is no mention of a Death Panel in the bill.  The decision to approve or deny your claim will still be in the hands of your insurer.  Can you challenge it if you are denied? ABSOLUTELY, plus the government will provide oversight to ensure that you don't get screwed by the insurance industry. P.23 Section 2719

Free Insurance to Illegal Immigrants: A recipient must be a LEGAL resident of the U.S. in order to receive a tax credit. Read the language in Subpart B "Eligibility Determination" before you react. Can illegals buy healthcare? Yes indeed. Can they still go to the local ER and get care without insurance?  Nobody stopped them before, now did they? And whom do you think has been absorbing the cost if hospitals claim that they lost $45 billion in revenues last year alone.  Have you ever wondered why your pricing is getting squeezed beside the usual, that we have commoditized the market? Have you ever wondered why your insurance premiums continue to escalate? Maybe Pasterna or Lukianov will save the day, unfortunately so far neither one of them have offered a solution to our crisis.

Rationing Healthcare: There is no language in the bill that will allow anyone to ration medicine, restrict your benefits, raise your premiums, or copays for that matter.  If you have an insurance policy you will be able to keep it without having to go on a government program.  In addition there is NO PUBLIC OPTION since it was stricken from from the bill on Page 92 under 1323 Community Health Insurance Option STRICKEN.

Did The People Who Passed the Law Read It?  At least one more time than those that scream and yell about it, considering that most people formulate their opinions from the PROPGANDA BOX, excuse me the flatscreen they go home to.  Contrary to the many that don't like Nancy Pelosi, and TSB includes ourselves in that group, before you quote her, at least try not to quote her out of context.  

Is it a Penalty or Tax? Regardless of what you call it, those that bitch the most are those making over $200,000 per annum and they will be taxed by less than 1% (0.9%) by 2013.  Once again don't believe go to P.818 and read the facts.

Here is the tradeoff.  By 2014 no insurer will be able to invoke their "pre-existing condition rule." All people will be charged the same regardless of their history. (Section 2704, 2701, 1255)  If you do not have insurance, you will be charged a fee regardless whether any candidate cloaks it as a penalty or tax.  Since insurers are going to have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't wait until you are sick to get coverage. YOU DO HAVE AN OPTION: you can determine that you will not buy insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee.  Do you pay for better schools?  Do you pay to have the police protect you?  Do you pay for public services like garbage collection or a fire department?  What is it about healthcare that makes people crazy?  A wealthy person sees no problem in buying a thoroughbred, but bitches about paying their surgeon the difference for services rendered when their insurance plan does not cover 100% of the bill and that my friends is a quote from many surgeons during our tenure in the industry.

Whether you agree with it or not, you all pay for the escalating costs of delivering healthcare.  WE DO NOT HAVE THE BEST HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD, WE HAVE THE MOST EXPENSIVE. And whether you believe it or not, everyone has a right to medical care. When a two and a half year old child exhausts their lifetime healthcare benefits because of illness, the parents are told to divorce in order to qualify for aid. What's wrong with insurance companies not being able to tell people that their "lifetime" benefits have been exhausted? TSB doesn't see the insurance industry rebating those of us that don't get sick and don't use their insurance at all, because you are healthy. And if you're healthy, why do you buy insurance coverage?  For those that espouse their Machiavellian mindset that only the strong survive, you'll sing a different song when you or your loved ones are no longer healthy.

As for the medical device tax, well, let's just say that the rules of engagement are changing.  If you want to play, you're going to have to pay.  Don't like it?  I highly doubt Lukianov, Dvorak, Orsinger, Binder, Vater et al are going to stop doing business in the United States, where else will they go?  Russia? Malaysia, Israel? India? Why does everyone desire to succeed in the U.S.? Why does everyone want to sell their products in the U.S.? The behavior of some of so-called leaders is despicable.  Not only do they believe their own press clippings, the cry like little girls when the can't get their way.  You know what TSB's granddaddy use to say, "you can only milk a cow for so long, and then she runs out of milk."  That my friends is the U.S. healthcare system.

83 comments:

  1. If they allowed the sale of insurance across state lines and eliminated the special taxes (device tax), then the bill would be much improved.

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    1. I agree, that would actually let the free market work and prices would go down.

      Also, based on your commentary MSM should people in Colorado pay higher HOI to help cover hurricane damage in the gulf, or earthquakes in California? It doesn't seem right I would pay the same as an overweight, smoker alcoholic for my healthcare. People who choose to be unhealthy should be penalized.

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    2. Do you actually know how many uninsured people fall under the category of being unhealthy? How many young people fall into this category? How do you equate the damage in the gulf or an earthquake in California to healthcare? By the way, didn't the federal government bail out the gulf, or any earthquake that occurred in California? Don't make frivolous comparisons, you begin to sound like Bobby Jindal comparing healthcare to the Mardi Gras.

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    3. Insurance companies are no longer allowed to spread the risk of each region across the country. Earthquake and hurricane insurance skyrocketed, which is how it should be. I feel no moral obligation to pay for some fat slobs 4th bypass surgery, or a fat kids diabetes. We need to be held accountable for our own health, not rewarded for being a big fat slob.

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    4. Sales of insurance across state lines is a state's issue. If the bill had said no to that the CONS would have accused Obama of limiting state rights by eliminating state insurance boards.

      CONS are very dishonest.

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  2. Amen 10:54! Nice post TSB! Tired of the whining...

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  3. Health care is not a right, as you state it is. None of this matters anyway as Romney will repeal the monstrosity after he's elected this fall.

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  4. TSB
    If it is so wonderful and grand, why have an incredibly large number of trade & labor unions, which are typically made up of liberal democrats, petitioned and received exemption waivers? Surely you must be against all exemptions, right? It's only fair, and what could these exempted parties be afraid of?

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  5. When is Mr. Memphis going to give us his words of wisdom. Isn't he the smartest guy in the room? Why doesn't he tell us what his alternative plan is? Keep cashing out that stock and keep bit chin' about the tax

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  6. MSM, I believe you are the confused one here!

    If I may address your topics point by point:

    Unconstitutionality: What shall we say to the feds when next we are all taxed as a result of not buying a Hybrid car?

    Death Panels: Easy one there, republicans die and democrats live (as long as they still vote)

    Illegals: yes they already receive free healthcare at our expense so whats the point? This is only important in that it allows vote buying.

    Rationing: Just because the law says it cannot happen doesn't mean shit! look at the illegals (isn't it supposed to be illegal to come across our borders???) Physicians will simply no longer accept patients on gov't sponsored insurance (some do this already with medicare for Gods sake). I can see it now, "you have private insurance step to the front of the line, you are on Obamacare, go to the back" And save me the sanctimonious bullshit response I can hear already about "how dare you put a pricetag on someone's health!!" You go operate on a patient for 10 hours just to have your claims denied over and over again for bullshit reasons.

    Did the politicians read the law: that is just a stupid question, why do you think the public opinion polls show their approval ratings at 6%?

    Is it a penalty or a tax?
    MSM you need to be honest here, if the court had ruled against O'bamacare you would've had this blog discussing the illegitamacy of the courts and you know it! O'Bama went on and on about how this should NOT be called a tax (please review his interview where he berates George Stephanopolous for suggesting as much).

    Tradeoff: Where do you come across all of these welthy people bitching about paying for healthcare? I think you need to take your own advice about taking Nancy Pelosi out of context! the bitching probably sounded more like "I really hate paying for evrybody else's healthcare"

    MSM, you are championing change in our healthcare system and No ONE will argue with you about that, but change for change's sake does NOT necessarily mean healthcare will get better, and in fact, may get way worse, ever think of that?

    Finally, if you do not respond to any of this just answer the question as to the waivers. Why do all of O'Bama's contributers and employers of thousands of people get exempted from this tax? They told O'Bama that if they were burdened with this tax that they would no longer be able to insure their employees (presumably due to cost and profit margins). This SHOULD put them in your esteem right up there with those evil doctors and medical device CEO's who actually prefer to get paid for the work they do. Shame on them, how dare we monetize a patient's sickness!

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    1. Is he Irish...O'bama?

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    2. no he is a Muslim, not sure if that is a fact though, just my opinion. After all he did lie about not raising taxes on the middle class.

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  7. !:03 you need to do your research and check your facts. As TSB says, you allowed to have an opinion but you're not allowed to make up your own facts, or those of FOX. The 200 Waivers that you mention pertain to the government granting companies a "TEMPORARY DELAY" before REQUIRING these companies to improve their employees "CHEAP COVERAGE" by giving them this TD, they can continue to provide their limited benefits plan also known as "Mini-Med" plans. These plans are used by large and small companies for low income and part time employees. So you become knowledgeable these plans may cover a visit to the doctor in addition to a discount for Prescription Drugs. The new law eliminates low coverage cap plans and this is where the waiver issue comes in. In closing, remember what MSM says, "YOU ARE ALLOWED TO YOUR OPINION, I'LL EVEN RESPECT YOUR RIGHT TO BE HEARD, BUT PLEAAAAASE REFRAIN FROM MAKING UP YOUR OWN FACTS OR THOSE OF FOX NEWS."

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    1. you are so full of crap, if this is such a great idea, then why wasn't it changed for everyone? can you say double standard? How many of these waivers were granted to opponents and non donors to the Obama campaign? I genuinely do not know the answer to that question, but I bet the answer would be very telling...

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    2. MM, 1:03 here, what exactly was not factual about my remarks? I said he granted the waivers and gave a full disclosure about presuming the reasons why. I do know that several of these companies at one point in time said they could not afford to continue healthcare coverage without the waivers. Oh, and why do you insist on pulling out the Fox news BS, I could just as easily say you are the mouthpiece for MSNBC, Oh burn!

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  8. 11:31 THIS PERTAINS TO YOU TOO. As Sgt. Joe Friday use to say "Just the Facts, m'am, Jut the Facts!"

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    1. Nice dodge bitch. Every time something about Obama comes up on here, it's as if you can't contain your zealotry for your gay rights savior.

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    2. Spine Dud, guess TSB put you in your place, you closet homosexual

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    3. You are right the supreme court ruled this is a tax! Plain and simple a tax! That is just a fact!!!

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    4. Joe Friday never said "just the facts, ma'am." Not once

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  9. TSB is so in the tank. Another Limo liberal.

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  10. What's the matter 1:48 you can't refute the facts. TSB is correct you are entitled to an opinion but you cannot make up your own facts to substantiate your beliefs. This is a typical response from someone who cannot refute an answer, childish commentary.

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    1. I fart in general direction!

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  11. Do any of you people understand that if you have healthcare coverage that the tax doesn't pertain to you, so what's the big deal, unless you are running around with healthcare coverage. Confusion reigns supreme especially by those kicking and screaming when they don't even know what they are arguing about

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  12. So I suppose the entire American Catholic church's Cardinals are wrong TSB? They said, "We will not comply with this unjust law", because it rams ABORTION down their throats, even though any of their employees are free to do it on their own (choice is great as long as you make OUR CHOICE).
    Obama and the Jackass party have awakened a sleeping giant, won the battle will lose the war.
    BTW, the states will fight this on a guerilla basis like FL is now, simply exercising the 'right to peacefully protest' that libs always give lip service to.

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    1. Moron I mean 2:14 it's people like you that are confused, in one breathe you talk about the gov't imposing on your freedom, then you quote the church and attempt to impose your own beliefs on everyone else. Confused? Dazed and confused, as someone has posted on this blog religion is the root of all evil. Maybe the people that scream the most about abortion should focus a little more on the catholic church not preying on little boys. Now you can go nuts, lock yourself in a rubber room and bounce off the walls.

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    2. People like 2:14 love imposing their beliefs on others, whatever happened to freedom from religion isn't this why the pilgrims came here, or was it for rolls like you to impose your catholicism on the rest of us? The church tolerant? Tolerant my ass

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  13. Here is a fact: I like to think of Jesus like with giant eagles wings, and singin' lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like an angel band and I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk!

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  14. 2:14 Fact: The individuals that wrote this bill would not touch abortion with a ten foot pole, it passes the this responsibility onto the individual states who can allow for insurance plans to cover or not cover abortion, the POTUS may be pro-choice but that is not advocated in the PPACA. PS: I'm with 2:26 the only thing is that Jesus never sang like RVZ "You Got That Right!"

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    1. MM,
      You didn't address 2:14's point. Why are such docile men of the cloth so ready to go to jail over this? Religious liberty is why this country was founded. It's true, check your Declaration and Constitution. It's right there, whether you agree with it or not. This is a horrendous travesty if they can do this to the Church, what can they do to you?

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    2. Religion: The root of all evil.

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    3. I know it 2:53! Those crazy Christians wanting their peace and love and forgiveness, cherishing life. It's almost as crazy as flying airplanes into buildings and stoning rape victims!

      Thanks for that never-before-heard-of zinger!

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    4. Poor whining Christians again? 2:53 didn't say Christian, he said ALL religion. The men who flew those planes into those buildings did so based solely on their religious beliefs. HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT POINT?

      You have been brain-washed from birth, that's why WE seem like the crazy ones. Read a book or two dude. Religion was put in place to control the masses. It will end one day, just a shame it wont be during my time. The world would be such a better place if everyone realized they DON'T get to float in the clouds with Jesus for eternity.....

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  15. TSB, Here are the facts:
    - Insurance companies are now a public utility, along with cartel-like price controls.
    - If I don't like an insurance company I can go to another one. I can't go to another US Gov't
    - Another 1/5th of the US economy is now under Gov't control like the banks, car industry, student loans, etc
    - Do you send your trays via Union Thugs at the US Postal Service or Fedex/UPS? Why or why not? Think about the Union Thug doing you cardiac surgery.
    - Obamacare was not sold as a TAX, if so it would have been easily defeated. Typical Orwellian doublespeak to fool the masses.
    - 40 million more people will be in line in front of you and your doctor for 'free' healthcare that you pay for.
    - Not a word about legal reform, so they still leech off of us
    - WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!!!!!!

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    1. Right on!!!!

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    2. -Try switching to another insurance company--typically you'll get higher premiums for the same coverage or less.
      -And insurance companies are not utilities--insurance companies don't have a monopoly to operate--isn't that what the argument is about? The left wants them to be a utility and force everyone to have a policy with them.
      -Finally tax, penalty- I think most people don't see the difference. And how many people would the tax effect?

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  16. As a casual observer of this blog people like 2:32 are not only uninformed they sound ridiculous

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    1. So we CAN afford it?

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    2. exactly, 2:33 why don't you go roll another doobie and enlighten us with your genius as to how we will not bankrupt our country with this new Tax?

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  17. talking about the pre-existing issues...just b/c they can't turn u down for ins coverage doesn't mean that they will pay for issues relating to the pre-existing condition. most states the ins companies can have a waiting period for such things for up to 12-18 months. check the facts i could be off

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    1. Under PPACA, they can neither deny you coverage, in fact, they are required to provide it and you are required to buy it (or be taxed). They also will be unable to deny claims for services related to pre-existing conditions. Your rates won't even vary based on pre-existing conditions. The rates can only be affected by age, tobacco use and rating area. If you have a chronic disease, you hit the jackpot. If you are young and healthy, you will be poorer.

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  18. I figured it out. This new MSM is actually Obama himself. Not the irish one, the muslim one. No such thing as a pro-choice Christian. No such thing.

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    1. I'm a pro choice Christian. Personally, I wouldnt have an abortion, but that is because of my religious beliefs. I realize not everyone has the same beliefs as me, therefore I think it is each woman's right to choose.

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    2. In your Christian belief system, things are either right or wrong (hopefully based on the Bible). If they're wrong for you how can they be right for someone else? Most Christians feel abortion is murder. If you feel that's the case, how can you say it's ok for others to murder? You are either a Christian in title only or you have not really thought out the abortion issue. Ask your pastor why he/she is pro-life. I'm not trying to make everyone change their beliefs to be like mine. I'm just saying that if your beliefs are like mine, Christian, then nowhere in Christian doctrine will you find it is allowable to kill the innocent and therefore kill a baby. Which side of the birth canal the baby happens to be on doesn't change murder to not murder. Obama professes to be a Christian but his opinions do not coincide with Christianity. There is no such thing as a pro-choice Christian.

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    3. Get off the blog, you are not welcome, go back to the rectory and prey on little boys

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    4. 7:37 is my new best friend !!

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    5. 7:37 is clueless. Someone posts a thoughtful opinion on an issue bigger than anything in spine and he tells the person they're not welcome. Go back to Nazi Germany where only one opinion mattered, yours.

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    6. Sorry 7:37, I'm not Catholic. Careful what you assume in order to fit you misguided beliefs.

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    7. Wow! The mere mention of ethics or religion makes some people extremely angry! Guess that could be because they don't have either.

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    8. As a former minister I can tell you with great authority that the Bible is total BS and most hardcore Christians are hypocrites.

      What the Bible says about Abortion

      Abortion is not murder. A fetus is not considered a human life.

      If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life. -- Exodus 21:22-23

      The Bible places no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old.

      And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. -- Leviticus 27:6

      Fetuses and infants less than one month old are not considered persons.

      Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

      God sometimes approves of killing fetuses.

      And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. -- Numbers 31:15-17
      (Some of the non-virgin women must have been pregnant. They would have been killed along with their unborn fetuses.)

      Give them, O LORD: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. -- Hosea 9:14

      Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb. -- Hosea 9:16

      Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up. -- Hosea 13:16

      God sometimes kills newborn babies to punish their parents.

      Because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. -- 2 Samuel 12:14

      God sometimes causes abortions by cursing unfaithful wives.

      The priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell. And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. ...
      And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. -- Numbers 5:21-21, 27-28

      God's law sometimes requires the execution (by burning to death) of pregnant women.

      Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. -- Genesis 38:24

      The Christian God is an evil cuss.

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  19. I read that the Cadillac plans will be taxed at 40% and that is why the unions received exemptions. Their members all have Cadillac plans and would be taxed.

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  20. MM,
    Riddle me this: What's worse, the Chinese government forcing abortions on women or the US government forcing the Catholic & Baptist churches to provide them?

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    1. The govt is not forcing anyone to provide anything. It does force employers, of whatever color or creed, to provide insurance coverage that allows the insured to exercise his or her rights under the constitution. If churches don't like choices that their employees make, than they should make sure they only hire people from their own flock who agree with them. But that's where the real pain lies: the church, it's leadership structure and it's leaders are so far out of touch that it has gone beyond funny. And seeing the mentality on display in court cases like recently in Philadelphia there is little hope for the future. Tot paraphrase 2:53, organized religion is the root of all evil.

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    2. Are you serious? Please read your first 2 sentences. "The govt is not forcing anyone to provide anything. There are forcing employers... to provide coverage that allows the insured to exercise his or her rights under the constitution". What rights are you referring to in the constitution? Please cite those rights.

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  21. Religion the root of all evil

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    1. I'm sad for you. Someday you will understand what you now do not.

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    2. Religion is the root of all that's bad in the world

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    3. So Man is the root of all Good? Official death toll of officially Atheist states:
      China- 50 million of its own people
      USSR - 30 million of its own people
      Cambodia - 5 million of its own people
      I could go on...

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    4. Catholic Priests molest little boys, need we say anymore about the church, hey Joan of Arc if you keep it up the people will burn you at the cross

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    5. I agree, the church can be pretty messed up. There was only one man that ever walked the earth and remained sinless.

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    6. Who dat? Not Jesus

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    7. That's exactly who it was.

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    8. I'm not catholic. The pastor at my church has never molested boys. Why do non believers only think of religion as catholic?

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    9. A purely defensive maneuver. It's easy to throw stones at the catholic priest molestation scandals and gives non-believers an "out" as to why religion is soooo horrible, thereby allowing them from having to measure their lives/actions against the true measuring stick, which is Christ. Remember, Christians are as filthy of pigs as anyone else. It's Christ and Christianity that are prefect and beautiful.

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    10. 11:38, That's right. You've heard of Him?

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    11. Well said 12:09

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  22. TSB
    There are so many things wrong in your post, factually and ideologically, that I just don't have the energy to address them all. But let's talk about a fact. Your referenced sections relating to premium standardization, stating all people will pay the same rates. That is wrong. If you read the first paragraph of section 2701 (which you referenced), it clearly states that premium rates can vary based on age (3:1) and tobacco use (1.5:1). Rating area also effects premiums. It may sound like I'm nitpicking but I just can't stand your self appointed position of "expert" as if no one else can comprehend the law when your facts aren't straight.
    And do any of us need to have language in the law that details rationing to understand that cutting 500 BILLION out of Medicare over a decade will lead to a rationing of care? As if any politician has the nuts to ration specific treatments. They will rely on the market to do that for them by eliminating services that are dogs. There are already a large number of docs that won't see Medicare patients because they don't have to to stay busy. Do you think they all of a sudden will start seeing the 30 million new Medicaid card holders? Let's be realistic and not a propaganda machine for a bill that is too complex to implement and doesn't address many of the real issues that drive cost up in the system.

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  23. 5:36 Zzzzzzzzzzzz

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  24. Where are the solutions 5:36? We don't want to hear criticism, we want your plan. We hear many opposed to this bill rant about everything that is wrong, what are you offering to make healthcare run efficiently in the U.S.... anecdotal quotes, "that's not the problem," "America has the greatest HC system in the world," "33 million uninsured people are not the problem," "healthcare is like Mardi Gras, it works for some and not for others," if you can provide us with an alternative people would listen to you, but most of you embrace the old way of doing business and that's not sustainable. Let's extract as much as we can while the going is good. As an independent I have not heard anything constructive from the right. Here are the facts;

    If you have insurance you will not incur a tax
    If you want free medical care and opt not to buy coverage you will be taxed

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    1. There are new taxes depending on income levels even if you have insurance.

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    2. Yes 5:36, how dare you criticize THE PLAN!! forget the fact that it will bankrupt the country, and have thousands of unintended crappy consequences. How dare you! How dare you actually make a coherent point! Now just be a nice little citizen and let the federal government shove this POS legislation down your throat!

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    3. 6:17 you are to much of an idiot to realize that you are being used to promote a law that is designed to eventually lead to a single F#*%ing payor model that will be in complete control of all of healthcare. Once they have achieved that they own your ass and can make every decision about what they think is "healthy" for you and stick it up your ass....friggin idiot

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    4. Business as usual, a corrupt healthcare system, POD's, POC's, PIC's, Surgeons children, girlfriends and wives working as reps, useless as tits on a bull, surgeons operating on patients that don't need surgery, surgeons not qualified to operate operating, workers' comp fraud (read the NJ blog and the WSJ), its okay we will all survive, change is good the world is constantly turning, all you have to fear is fear itself, friggin idiot, a little checks and balanced would be welcomed, look what deregulation did to banking in this country and globally and then you can rationalize your nonsense.

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    5. yes and wait and see what happens when people start realizing they can't get their healthcare. You thought prohibition was bad when the people couldn't get their alcohol!!You will see plenty of irrationality then! Pun intended!

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    6. 6:02, I agree. Facts are boring.

      6:17, I offered no anectdotal quotes. And yes I am criticizing the bill. I suppose you want everyone to just focus on the positive. That would make you feel all warm and fuzzy. After all, that's what liberals and independents do with all conservative policies so we should return the favor? And no, I don't proclaim to have all the answers. Some of these issues are unsolvable in this political climate. Why don't give MM the same grief you give me? He obviously is not looking at the bill objectively and is simply a mouthpiece for one side without actually thinking thru the obvious implications the bill will have. That's worse IMO. And if the last sentence of your post is the summation of your understanding of what's going on, then you are hopeless.

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    7. Reasonable, non-ideological thought has no place here. You are not welcome.

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  25. Excellence will find a way out of this mess. You will now have a 2-tiered system like Britain, where you get excellent healthcare if you can afford it. If not, then get in line and suffer. If they oulaw it here, Grand Cayman and Bahamas just a short flight away.
    The Supreme Court is now like the British health system. It takes 2 years to get in, they tell you nothing's wrong and you can't get a second opinion...

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  26. TSB I'm astounded that you're defending the ACA. As mentioned by many previous posters the problems are too extensive to list in a single post. Right or wrong blah blah blah - how is Obamacare financially feasible? The congressional budget office estimates this will add at least an additional trillion dollars to the deficit over the next 10 years. I would like to know where you think that money will come from without 1. printing money and destroying currency 2. borrowing from China 3. further raising taxes. The deficit is out of control and no one knows how bad it really is. I invite everyone to study this site for 5 minutes and then defend how Obamacare is good for this country: http://www.usdebtclock.org

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  27. There are good things and bad things in ACA, without any civil discourse nothing gets done especially if people believe that we can continue to do things the same way.

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  28. I have a general question for all of you. If it is found that the constitution does not allow the federal government to force the people to engage in a certain behavior ( in this case, to purchase health insurance), then how then is it legal for the Federal government to impose a fine per Obama, or a tax per Roberts, on people who do not engage in that behavior? Can they now also fine/tax individuals who do anything that the Fed doesn't want you to do, even if they can't legally write a law preventing you from doing it?

    Any lawyers out there with the answer to these questions? They way it seems, the government can control everything you do by imposing a fine/tax on you if you don't fall in line with their wishes, even if you don't break the law. And remember, if it is a tax, you go to jail for not paying it, even if it the action (or inaction) that resulted in you being taxed isn't against the law.

    I didn't hear any limitation on how much you can be taxed either, so the 1% or $2000 could have been higher to the point where it made it impossible to choose not to buy health insurance. Simply making the fine/tax equivalent to the premiums, they get the money in the system as if the mandate were upheld. All the while, the mandate is illegal and the people who choose not to be forced into the mandate are now criminals if they don't pay the fine/tax.

    Does anyone see a problem with the Federal government being told the mandate is illegal, yet they can fine people for choosing not to participate in the mandate so that they now,effectively, have the mandate. Meanwhile the citizen who does not legally have to participate is fined/taxed for exercising that legal right and has to answer to the IRS if the fine for acting within the law is not paid?

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    1. combining the 16th amendment with SCOTUS precedent, Congress can tax to whatever degree they choose to elicit whatever behavior they desire. So yes, the gov't can require you to prove you purchase a multivitamin and tax you for failing to do so. Amend your Constitution or live with it.

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  29. The 16th Amendment is 1 sentence. How in the world did it get so prostituted to allow for the nonsense we are now seeing. Compounding of legal precedent will lead to disaster, there is no way to reconcile all of the varying legal opinions we now have on the books. I think that became clear when our president, a constitutional scholar, was completely blindsided by the SCOTUS decision, even though the outcome was in his favor, ultimately.

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